Author Topic: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help  (Read 68153 times)

Offline Nook

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TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« on: September 19, 2012, 04:28:37 AM »
If you have any questions about the workings of the game, tricks, routes, or speedruns, this is the place to ask or help others.

Offline Glozboy

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2012, 03:08:29 AM »
Is there a route available for a segmented any% run?

I don't really have enough time at the moment to try single segment runs but I can't find any routes on the internet.

Thanks!
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Offline Nook

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2012, 03:55:43 AM »
There is not any right now, KlydeStorm had one but at this point it's dated. I would imagine it would be similar to the RTA route and segmented mostly by savewarps. As far as tricks go, segmented would not bring anything new aside from a possible Puppet Ganon skip.

Offline Abahbob

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2012, 04:00:46 PM »
Segmented runs aren't really faster. A segmented run consists of doing segments over and over to get them perfect. AFAIK they aren't really meant for casual speed running. Also, there is no segmented route, and I don't think anyone will make a route for a while because of all the recent discoveries.

Offline mzxrules

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2012, 05:56:58 PM »
Sticky'd.

Is there a list of good spots to do storage at?
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Offline Abahbob

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2012, 06:18:55 PM »
Not yet.

Offline rust45

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2012, 01:44:19 PM »
I need help with routing in a master sword speedrun. In my practice run I just did forbidden woods, but I'm not sure where I should go from here. I'm pretty much a noob at knowing how to have the wind. So if someone could tell me sail locations and wind changes up till TotG for me. I would be really appreciative. Thanks ahead of time.

EDIT: Just for clarification, I have the wind at NW from leafing into FW.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 01:52:46 PM by rust45 »

Offline Nook

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 03:35:58 PM »
If you follow this you can learn the whole route: http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=fcDzcxRRXTU


Offline rust45

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 04:12:01 PM »
Are you sure about that route in there? He doesn't even go to Eastern Triangle after FW. Wouldn't it be faster to go there after FW as opposed to after Southern Triangle?

Offline Nook

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2012, 08:13:30 PM »
That is the most recent Master Sword route, everything was timed to make it as fast as possible

Offline Demon9

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2012, 11:07:38 PM »
I think Swordless couldn't find the eastern triangle island in that run so he went there later after S triangle. This is alot slower so don't mind that video, just go to E triangle after FW and then sail west to greatfish.

Offline Nook

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2012, 05:31:47 AM »
I think Swordless couldn't find the eastern triangle island in that run so he went there later after S triangle. This is alot slower so don't mind that video, just go to E triangle after FW and then sail west to greatfish.
^ That's correct, I apologize I didn't watch this myself

Offline rust45

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2012, 08:41:18 PM »
Alright, can someone explain how to get the barrel trick in FF1 consistent? I keep practicing that one section with the two moblins but half the time I end up getting caught by the second one. I try to run behind the wall but he still seems to catch me.

Offline Gords

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2012, 01:05:59 AM »
I don't really have enough time at the moment to try single segment runs but I can't find any routes on the internet.
How long do you think before you will have enough time to do a single segment run?
my suggestion would be to just do parts of the game to learn the single segment and when you think you have enough time to do a whole run (based on the times of your practice segments) you could try a single segment. This is what i did a couple of years ago when i first learned a WW route for a zelda speedrun event, the first time i actually did the whole run was at the event. Breaking up the game into 3 categories (mainly because of 3 save slots); start to enter ToG, Tog to defeat Wind temple, and triforce chart/piece collection and defeat ganondorf.
I still use this same method except I have more save slots now and emulator, but the principle is the same as in practice the parts often and when i find time i do a run (which until Uni semester is over is just the Saturday english no tuner any% race on SRL)

Offline Nook

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2012, 02:01:51 AM »
Alright, can someone explain how to get the barrel trick in FF1 consistent? I keep practicing that one section with the two moblins but half the time I end up getting caught by the second one. I try to run behind the wall but he still seems to catch me.
Run toward the barrel, pick it up & drop it immediately, and make your way around them. The first one will not see you for sure if you're decently fast, but the second one is a bit trickier. If you don't get passed him with just about perfect speed, it's likely he'll see you. If you don't trust how fast you were going, go around Moblin 2's right side and wait for him to turn around, then go.

Offline Yashichidsf

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2012, 04:20:02 AM »
I've gotten caught several times by the first one and it was really surprising, but I know what I did wrong. Just one roll in a bad direction could get you caught by the first one; don't roll parallel to the ledge you're running along when trying to pass him up with one final roll, try to roll diagonally forward if possible. He's generally forgiving, but it still doesn't hurt to be careful.
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Offline Glozboy

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2012, 04:09:58 AM »
I'm trying to learn Dry Storage and need to clear something up.

I'm attempting the Boss Key skip on Dragon Roost Cavern. I can do the Wind Waker dive but I can't seem to get the timing right putting it away.

I know I should put it away 3 frames before I land. Does that mean pretty much the instant I land, or more towards the middle of my fall?

Thanks!
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Working on: No RBA/WW

Offline Yashichidsf

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2012, 04:33:43 AM »
It's sorta right before the instant you land. It's easier to learn through experience though; once you get a grasp on when to do it you can do it pretty much anywhere.
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Offline Glozboy

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2012, 01:32:21 AM »
Delayed pressing B by a little bit and pulled it off pretty quickly. Boss Key skip also worked out.

Thanks for the advice!
Currently playing: Ocarina of Time (GC)
Working on: No RBA/WW

Offline Bellucian

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2012, 01:39:31 AM »
Just wondering if anyone has a video of the new Master sword route with dry storage and whatnot, have had a bit of a look around and can't dig one up, thanks.

Offline Vulpone

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2012, 04:04:38 AM »
Just wondering if anyone has a video of the new Master sword route with dry storage and whatnot, have had a bit of a look around and can't dig one up, thanks.

hey,

how detailed do you want it to be? I was thinking of making videos for the most common used tricks with commentary and FAQs and detailing them as well as writing down the routes in pastebins... to document tWW more.

so, how detailed? I'll probably have the text done by tomorrow

Offline Yashichidsf

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2012, 04:18:04 AM »
I could try doing some Master Sword runs today saying why I do what I do, explaining things step-by-step and such. Anything to 1-up Vulpone, you know.  ;)

Also, are you more interested in the any% route up to Master Sword or just the Master Sword category? There are some differences up to Forest Haven between the two, plus the obvious discrepancies with Tingle, the BPR chart and the Elixir Soup.
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Offline Bellucian

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2012, 04:31:04 AM »
I could try doing some Master Sword runs today saying why I do what I do, explaining things step-by-step and such. Anything to 1-up Vulpone, you know.  ;)

Also, are you more interested in the any% route up to Master Sword or just the Master Sword category? There are some differences up to Forest Haven between the two, plus the obvious discrepancies with Tingle, the BPR chart and the Elixir Soup.
I think this answers Vulpone and your questions, I hope

I was more just after a normal run of it but commentary to whatever depth is always welcome and adds to the fun, the Any% videos are easy to dig up I was really looking for just the master sword category as like you said there is a few differences and I was just curious how it all played out as it'd be cool to learn it as well and race it!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 05:05:30 AM by Bellucian »

Offline Yashichidsf

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2012, 05:36:19 PM »
Alright here's a run I had: http://www.twitch.tv/yashichidsf/b/337384179 I got WR in it too, because MS Eng no Tuner WR is an important thing, you know
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Offline Bellucian

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2012, 06:10:14 PM »
Alright here's a run I had: http://www.twitch.tv/yashichidsf/b/337384179 I got WR in it too, because MS Eng no Tuner WR is an important thing, you know

Cheers dude, will check it out when I get home, and it is important, not alot of people can claim they have a World Record under their belt  ;D

Offline Yashichidsf

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2012, 03:55:37 AM »
Yeah, hope I helped. If I missed anything and you still have questions, feel free to ask. :)
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Offline Bellucian

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2012, 04:44:00 PM »
All been good so far, with the exception of the beedles ship WW dive, If I sit on the ship and wait for the nose to rise I can get it 95%~ however if I spin the camera and run at it similar to what you do I can only really hit it 15%~ is there some secret to it or am I just a baddy?

Offline T00lri0t

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2012, 08:40:20 PM »
What's with the main site saying something about early master sword?? I felt like low% was the "earliest" you could get it but there must be something I'm missing...

Offline Demon9

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2012, 02:48:21 AM »
Early master sword in this game would mean that you complete FF2 early in the game just after you get the wind waker to get the master sword after the cutscene. We haven't found any good use of this so far so it's useless, but cool!

Offline playe

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2012, 06:12:21 AM »
Is there a english no tuner any% route anywhere? I want to get into learning this game but haven't found much in the way of routes.

Offline Yashichidsf

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2012, 06:50:28 AM »
If there is a written route somewhere, I've never seen it. I believe most people learned by watching others, and you'd really need to do that to get a good feel for the route anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if someone had a pastebin of the route lying around, though.
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Offline Moon

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2012, 04:20:09 AM »
I am trying to do a None-Tingle turner run and i was Wondering:

The glitch cosmo uses at 2 hours 57 min, is it possible to do that with Medli?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkczgahpDpQ

With storage you can climb the statue and go to that room, however the "stone" (what i mentioned in the video), is blocking your path.
I can get medli  out of bounds and fly to the "light", however i can't seems to get the stone "Dissapear".
Thats why i am wondering, what Cosmo is doing at 2 hours 57 min, is that possible with Medli?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 11:33:22 PM by Moon »

Offline GlitchesAndStuff

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2012, 10:10:55 AM »
I am trying to do a None-Tingle turner run and i was Wondering:

The glitch cosmo uses at 2 hours 57 min, is it possible to do that with Medi?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkczgahpDpQ

With storage you can climb the statue and go to that room, however the "stone" (what i mentioned in the video), is blocking your path.
I can get medi  out of bounds and fly to the "light", however i can't seems to get the stone "Dissapear".
Thats why i am wondering, what Cosmo is doing at 2 hours 57 min, is that possible with Medi?

Unfortunately, Medli cannot aim down far enough (so the light won't hit the wall). If we do somehow get medli to aim down far enough from that platform then it would probably work and would save time in the non-tuner and TAS routes. Good theory though, never even thought about it myself

Offline Gords

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2013, 11:44:43 PM »
Question about loading zone of boss/miniboss doors in dungeons.
Maybe ababob or someone can answer this

Is the loading zone for a miniboss/boss room always there from as soon as you enter the dungeon, or do you have to load the adjacent room to the boss/minboss room for the loading zone to be there?
And if it is there from the start could you theoretically leaf over to the loading zone through the unloaded adjacent room?

Offline Moon

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2013, 01:46:00 AM »
Question about loading zone of boss/miniboss doors in dungeons.
Maybe ababob or someone can answer this

Is the loading zone for a miniboss/boss room always there from as soon as you enter the dungeon, or do you have to load the adjacent room to the boss/minboss room for the loading zone to be there?
And if it is there from the start could you theoretically leaf over to the loading zone through the unloaded adjacent room?

In the Windwaker almost all "Rooms" are on separated "Maps", this does mean that the loading zone of a boss/miniboss only can be accessed if you are in the good map. I will advice to check the Earth Temple to understand what i mean. For example cosmo's zombie hover to go to the miniBoss, he goes out of bounds -> Then he fly's to the loading zone, while he is flying he can see all "Rooms" in the map

However in the OOT and Majora's Mask it is possible to go to the boss Loading zone, from the entrance of the dungeon (For example the water temple in the Majora's Mask)

Offline Abahbob

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2013, 12:57:46 PM »
Question about loading zone of boss/miniboss doors in dungeons.
Maybe ababob or someone can answer this

Is the loading zone for a miniboss/boss room always there from as soon as you enter the dungeon, or do you have to load the adjacent room to the boss/minboss room for the loading zone to be there?
And if it is there from the start could you theoretically leaf over to the loading zone through the unloaded adjacent room?

Each room has it's own list of exits. I haven't tested to see if you can hit the miniboss/boss exits from other maps. I really should have thought of this earlier. It is entirely possible that it will work, or that some rooms will have the exits loaded. My guess is that it won't work like how it does in MM, where you can just go to the boss exit, but I'll have to try. Nintendo tends to fuck exits up.

Offline Gords

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2013, 12:26:31 AM »
yeah that is what i have thought, I have been mucking around in the earth temple and trying to clip from the room where makar is taken into the miniboss room, however i cant see where it is like i can if i did the bomb clip. So i am unsure if i am going to the wrong place or the loading zone isnt there for me to leaf over, however after studying maps and .

Also I remember cosmo mentioning during AGDQ that there is one place in the wind temple that we cant get around using the iron boots. i thought it he was talking about the room with the giant fan at the bottom and where we currently use the boots to open the floor up, right after using the warp pot.
However i figured out how to get beyond that hurdle quickly so i am starting to think I remembered incorrectly. Now I am thinking he was talking about the room right after doing the second bomb clip, (the only room we actually use a small key to enter). this room requires the boots to hit a floor switch on a high platform which unlocks the door (locked by bars) on the other side.
So do I actually remember incorrectly or is my memory right, and if so then how do we currently know of on how to avoid using the boots in this room.
(also if i did remember correctly and the spot that i think he was talking about is not yet cracked let me know and i will upload a vid of my way of getting to the mini boss room without using the boots).

I also cant get past the gust room that has the boos door at the end of it (got there using boots) if i have storage without boots

EDIT:, ok im uploading a vid of some wind temple stuff.
it processing now but here is the link anyway
[it failed]
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 06:36:37 PM by Gords »

Offline gamestabled

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2013, 12:22:46 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V1o92bzE58 This is the one switch that can't be skipped, at the end. The room past the door is unloaded so clipping directly past will not help, and the only way to load it is to open the door...so... :-\
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Offline Gords

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2013, 01:42:01 PM »
yeah thats what i thought now. anyway my vid failed to load:( ill re-upload it

i am having troubles with uploading it
what are the best settings to have when recording with amarectv for uploading to youtube

EDIT:
i rerecorded it in xsplit to upload to youtube, help with amarectv would be appreciated though.

Anyways the my alternative wind temple route can be found here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlEsDWdygqc

most of it is probably known already but what the hell, i uploaded it anyway.
The video includes:
skipping both floor switches in the main room (room where makar is captive)
Storage twice, (one in the dark)
a tunerless boss key skip (which doesn't require a hover)

This route though is very unforgiving and similar to earth temple, if you fail some things you may have to do half of the dungeon again.

I came up with this route mainly while trying to see if i can do this temple without iron boots but you cant :( I played pretty bad in the video, but i think this route might be faster than the tunerless route, but slower the the tuner route. (even though I have double magic here, my magic never falls below half way, so route can be done with single magic meter)

some notes. (i would put these notes in a spoiler box, but i dont know how on ZSR)
0:52 - you could use the boots here like we do already and wont need to leaf pump, did it this way to show getting the hookshot without boots though.
       Also there is a chest (containing 100 rupees) in this room you can use to get storage instead of the one I use at 4:27. You have to use makar to plant tree then climb on the tree and leaf to the spring after getting chest storage. you then use the boots and leaf directly to the other side. this may be faster than using the other chest.

3:09 - i use the spring to get storage, I am pretty sure this has been known for a while. Geez I'm terrible at getting storage today.

4:23 - I do this leaf back flip trick all the time in my tuner runs

4:27 - I use this chest here to get storage since I was trying to do this part without boots, the other chest mentioned earlier is probably faster.

4:40 - I kill the peahats because they sometimes got in the way.

4:45 - this statue is the first of things that can go wrong. firstly i go up the left side since makar will start gas-bagging about the weight of the thing if you get to close to him.
       Also you can get crushed form the eyebrows and nose if your not careful, and not only that at some angles you can actually clip though it and end up on the other side. this is great for getting makar out but then your trapped. This doesn't sound right!!!:P

4:53 - the eyebrows on this guy has crushed me as well, also if you seem to get to it without standing on him you can try some leaf pumps against it. this seems to work sometimes.

5:09 - you can never clip with the first ledge grab this only allows you to clip into the pillar. I had some difficulty with it this time, but most of the time on the 3rd ledge grab I clip out of bounds. You have to be careful here as well since you can sometime fall done before you have clipped out of bounds and then have to go all way back to the statues. You can even clip through some times and see it if you rotate the camera, at 4:45 you can see this but I accidentally walked back in bounds:(

7:08 - terrible min boss fight

10:58 - using the compass chest to get chest storage here, since it is the closest chest to the bottom floor.

11:10 - ill you should be able to see what happens here at the end of the video, i dont usually fail this clip this many time

12:14 - if you pull the leaf to late and die, the compass chest is still closed for a retry:)

12:44 - the road block :(

13:09 - another unforgiving part, if you fall in this room your done. not only that the jump off the fan cage requires 3 near perfect leaf pumps and a good jump to make it on the other side.

13:46 - if you fall in this gap your done also. I have link positioned so his right foot is pretty much off the ledge before i side hop.

13:59 - no need for sidling here.

14:05 - the tunerless boss key skip. i think with practice you could do this more quickly. but yeah just walk around the door with storage, similar to FW. Need to be careful you don't fall off though nut maybe you could save your self with the leaf if you react fast enough.

14:25 - bad boss fight, good music. why do we get rewarded for bad play?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 09:52:15 PM by Gords »

Offline Smith

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Re: TWW: Question & Answer / Trick Help
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2013, 05:06:53 PM »
May I have an explanation of the Zombie Hover in the Earth temple? Or more specifically the angle I need to clip through? I thought I had been doing the set up right that I've seen Cosmo do, but I guess I'm not angled right. Thank you to whoever answers.