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Author Topic: MST Route Discussion  (Read 126583 times)

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TaylorTotFTW

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MST Route Discussion
« on: June 16, 2012, 02:54:59 PM »

This is the Official OoT 3DS NG+ MST Route, last updated 9/29/12.

http://pastebin.com/EAUQwWM9 (Thanks Ben)


Feedback is good.




Original text of the first post

So, I was just thinking about this today, as I want to start running it. I figured I should make this topic to discuss routing (which is really confusing by the way  :-X ).

Since DoT skip has not yet been discovered yet, that means that (obviously) we have to do all 3 child dungeons as child. I still see the order of this as up to debate, since deku obviously isn't required to be completed first, but I don't see how bombs/boomerang would make deku that much faster. Also, I heard BotW chus early doesn't work anymore (?) and the wrong warp to ganons castle to get chus wouldn't work either, so there's that. Right now, I don't see a problem with just going in normal child dungeon order. In terms of adult, I think  shadow, forest, ice/water, fire, then spirit would be alright. Also, something else to consider is MST NG+, if that would really help at all. Anywhore, insight/routing suggestions would be much appreciated.

Disclaimer, I might have no idea what the fuck I'm on about.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 10:58:00 AM by TaylorTotFTW »
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Nook

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2012, 03:31:51 PM »

You can set Farore's Wind at Temple of Time -> Outside Temple of Time | Fire Temple Bluewarp, and warp to the Door of Time opened before having all 3 stones, so conceivably you could finish child dungeons as an adult

TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2012, 03:40:50 PM »

Yeah, but in order to even get to the fire temple blue warp you need to beat the fire temple, which has to happen as adult, which requires all 3 stones. Unless we could use another blue warp?
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Nook

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2012, 03:45:28 PM »

Hammer NG+ lets you beat it as child Link. Maxx has a YouTube video of it

TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2012, 04:16:30 PM »

Yeah, but we would have to get bombs, sling (i think) and like 2+ bottles with faeries for the heat timer. For what? Deku and Jabu as adult don't significantly save that much time.
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gamestabled

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2012, 08:01:23 PM »

I heard BotW chus early doesn't work anymore (?) and the wrong warp to ganons castle to get chus wouldn't work either,

The only reason we cant get early wellchus is because we cant clip oob. Being in ganon's as child link seems to always crash the game. If you found a fix for either of these...good job heres a milkshake.

I would think about the child spirit possibility on this route. I dont think we have an adult gate skip on this version, but I may be wrong.
Also your gonna need to think a bit more about dungeons like water temple where you cant just hover over the boss door as on console.

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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2012, 10:34:45 PM »

I don't have a problem with

Deku
DC
Jabu
Child Spirit
(Go adult)
Shadow
Forest
Water
Fire
Adult Spirit

I'm kind of iffy on the last ones, as I don't know what the exact strats would be, but this seems like a good outline considering there are no major sequence breaks besides Shadow early and child spirit (I don't think, at least).
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2012, 02:27:34 PM »

Also, what should we have on B if we're not doing hammer?
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Nook

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2012, 02:42:30 PM »

Master Sword

TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2012, 04:45:37 PM »

That would mean no Deku first because having the Master Sword doesn't actually count as having a sword equipped, so unless there's a Deku guard skip that means we wouldn't have the sling for jabu+DC, making Jabu un-doable because we don't have chu's either.
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gamestabled

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2012, 05:44:42 PM »

when you get the lullaby mido lets you pass for some reason

Also BOOMERANG ON B?!?! skip most of jabu?
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2012, 06:17:56 PM »

While really useful, what do you plan on using for a weapon in Deku and DC? Just a shit ton of Deku sticks?

Since there IS actually a mido skip, I think Master Sword would really 'B' our only option here. In that case, the child route now looks like:

40 rupees*
shield*
TSC forest escape
zelda's lol-aby
savewarp
Deku
saria's song
DC**
savewarp
TSC Navi dive
ruto's letter***
jabu
go adult

*this might just be my instincts, do we actually need a shield?
**dat goron city entrance, so close...
***there is actually a TSC to get behind king zora, but I don't think there's a jabu clip, and besides we probably need a bottle for somewhere else as adult link anyways

Feedback is good.


« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 06:42:37 PM by TaylorTotFTW »
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2012, 10:15:59 AM »

Alright, I'm doing a test run and now I can lay out a more detailed route.

Collect 'x' rupees
TSC forest escape
Zelda's lullaby
Savewarp
Collect '40-x' rupees
Buy shield
Collect 3 deku sticks on the way to deku
Enter deku
Get deku nuts from the left and upper deku babas
Get slingshot
Mega sidehop with deku baba (which conveniently pushes you back all the way to the second web, breaking it)
Kill Gohma
Saria's song
Savewarp
To DMT, then to GC to get bracelet
DC
Up DMT to magic
savewarp
TSC Navi Dive forest escape
to ZD
play diving game, get ruto bottle
move king zora, then back down and get fish in bottle
jabu*
out of ZD, down ZR for rupees
to gerudo valley
gateskip
gerudo fortress
gateskip
through desert to shadow colossus
child spirit (don't forget to pick up bomb chus)
watch cutscene for song
savewarp
to castle market
dins fire
to ToT
adult

* As for strats inside Jabu: the megaflip with still works for getting onto the platform early, but I have yet to find a way to skip the door without having the box there, It may be possible, but I tried for like 20 minutes, and it was hard because I don't kow what from to look for and I had to pause buffer (which is actually challenging now lol). I ended up just doing the dungeon normally, but I'm sure that a door skip is possible.


« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 10:27:35 AM by TaylorTotFTW »
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Norkix

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2012, 10:48:20 AM »

First of all: YOUTUBE YOU FOOL!

Second: does this mean no one likes 100% anymore?

Third: Backflip onto the switch and pull out Zelda's Letter right before you land. No need for box/Ruto
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11:17 <Cosmo>: It's hard to tell what ASAP means with todays sequence breaks

TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2012, 11:08:23 AM »

First: The only video I could find was pokey's and it's not very good at explaining anything D:

Second: I don't know, I'm not really feeling 100% anymore, I'm more focused on this.

Third: Thanks, that's actually really useful.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 11:10:53 AM by TaylorTotFTW »
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2012, 08:16:30 AM »

Alright, I completed the rest of the child section, so everything is confirmed to work out. Also, should we pick up Din's Fire on our way to the ToT at the end? I know you can skip the part where you need it at trials, and we're doing Shadow early so getting in isn't a problem, but as far as I know there isn't a Din's Fire skip for the Boss Key room. I'll just add that to the route, but for now I'm off to plan the adult route.
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2012, 02:51:56 PM »

I'm thinking this would work out for adult:

Hookshot
Forest
Ice
Water
Fire
Shadow
Spirit

(No shadow early because I don't think the risk/reward ratio is good enough)
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Norkix

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2012, 02:57:16 PM »

What do you mean risk/reward? Shadow Early is just difficult. There's no risk.
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11:17 <Cosmo>: It's hard to tell what ASAP means with todays sequence breaks

TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2012, 03:06:02 PM »

Doesn't ISG only work if you're dead, then collect a heart?
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Norkix

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2012, 04:11:22 PM »

Oh yeah, MST is single seg. In that case, yes. Yes Shadow Early is a risk.
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gamestabled

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2012, 06:08:43 PM »

Single-segment is not the same as Real Time Attack. RTA allows resetting, and zelda poeple generally do RTA.
Oh, and do we need the iron boots to get water boss key? I'm not sure Ice cavern is necessary.
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2012, 06:41:36 PM »

Even in RTA, it would waste alot of time and bombs if you failed it once. The only reward being not having to watch the shadow cutscene. As for the water temple, it's going to be a BITCH to route. There is this glitch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB6Thj2FEMg) that allows OoB clips with Iron boots, which opens up all new possibilities. I'm pretty sure we have to have Iron boots, unless you plan on spell diving everywhere. Also this if it helps at all ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqCyRDuD7E )
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 06:46:15 PM by TaylorTotFTW »
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2012, 09:22:50 PM »

After messing around with that clip for a while I couldn't manage to find anything useful with, because even though I'm sure something could be done, the majority of the temple is unloaded. I think for now we may just have to do the dungeon normally, until something comes up. In that case, water can't be first because we need the bow.
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Nook

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2012, 09:58:34 AM »

This is why you guys need Shadow first: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D85nw59lcI

gamestabled

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2012, 12:02:20 PM »

I found a cool trick jump (that might be old) to skip some rooms on the way to the boss key without iron OR hover boots and Ill add a video in this post when i can record it. But Im not sure how small key needy we are if we do it because I did it on a completed file, you will also need irons or lowered water to get there because just cutscene diving isnt enough.

Im about to get a file so I can work on the whole temple not needing either boots, hopefully it happens?
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2012, 12:16:44 PM »

Alright, after messing around with the Water Temple OoB glitch for a while and doing other stuff, I can conclude that:

You know that room that has the spikes to prevent you from climbing up and has a hookshot target on the other side that requires the longshot, which also leads to the boss key? Well, with the OoB glitch and the water all the way up you can almost land on the other side of the spikes, in fact you an actually land in the water and swim just underneath the floor past the spikes, but you can't get up. (Also, that route requires 2 keys to get to the boss key.) Theoretically, if we had the hoverboots we would be able to skip the longshot ONLY IF I could get that clip past the spikes to work (spoiler: I can't). Honestly, this is physically hurting me to do. ugh.

Aaanyway, for Forest we can just grab the bow and TSC into unloaded basment to the boss room.

Fire can techinicaly be done with first, with only 6 hearts, but at least 7 would be prefered.

Spirit can literally be done on a whim, as it doesn't require anything but the hookshot and we already have Requim of Spirit.

Shadow early is being considered now :P
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 12:19:03 PM by TaylorTotFTW »
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gamestabled

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2012, 12:24:55 PM »

You know that room that has the spikes to prevent you from climbing up and has a hookshot target on the other side that requires the longshot, which also leads to the boss key? Well, with the OoB glitch and the water all the way up you can almost land on the other side of the spikes, in fact you an actually land in the water and swim just underneath the floor past the spikes, but you can't get up. (Also, that route requires 2 keys to get to the boss key.) Theoretically, if we had the hoverboots we would be able to skip the longshot ONLY IF I could get that clip past the spikes to work (spoiler: I can't). Honestly, this is physically hurting me to do. ugh.

Just get into that room normally, and use the hoverboots to cross from in bounds...
I guess we are getting iron AND hover boots. Fml.
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2012, 01:56:37 PM »

Dos problemos, hombre. 1, the spikes are higher than the platform you stand on, so no megaflips/hoverslides/recoil boosts because you just get sent straight into the spikes, and 2, hoverboots actually would not help because I haven't been able to do a hoverslide across to the longshot platform (that leads to the boss room). But then again I suck at hoverslides, give it a shot yourself.
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gamestabled

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2012, 03:15:03 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvwB0phzF0I

Full route for the water temple that requires NO iron boots, NO zora tunic and NO longshot.

Does require hoverboots. And yes taylortot, I just tried the hoverslide and it works.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 03:19:34 PM by gamestabled »
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2012, 03:33:16 PM »

Holy shit

You are such a bro

Thank you.. So much :o

But really, thanks alot. And holy hell, how do you hoverslide that far? The fuck am I doing wrong?

But boy, is shadow early tough. After trying for an hour I only managed to get ISG once :(

Last note, new dungeon order is looking like:

Shadow
Water
Forest
Fire
Spirit
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 03:44:17 PM by TaylorTotFTW »
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gamestabled

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2012, 04:09:00 PM »

Make sure you equip the hoverboots after you start your slide so that you start at full speed.

Also we need the bow for water temple, so switch forest and water. EDIT: IM AN IDIOT. YOU CAN DINS THE TORCHES :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YnUzO91RJs I just remembered this trick. We need to compare the time saved with this trick in shadow to the time saved by skipping longshot and having hovers in water.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 05:53:07 PM by gamestabled »
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2012, 04:40:22 PM »

Oh man, I forgot you needed the longshot for that... Well, right now the strategy for Water without hovers is 'do it normally', but I would be much more inclined to do anything that involves not doing shadow early.
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2012, 04:42:17 PM »

But also remember, no hovers=get iron boots.
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2012, 01:10:48 PM »

I just found a great setup for the burger king skip in forest, I'll record it and put it on YouTube as soon as I get home from Pennsyilvania, where I am now.

Also, I think I'm doing something wrong with ISG... When I jumpslash, I get hit and collect the heart, and I don't come crashing down like crazygamernerd did his first try in his shadow early video, I come almost floating down like he did his second try, but I don't have ISG.
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Norkix

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2012, 02:29:14 PM »

The sword doesn't activate until about the peak of the arc. try jumpslashing a tiny bit later.
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2012, 06:50:30 PM »

Ladies, gentlemen, and raccoons of the forum, I would like to prove why the defendant, Mr. Shadow Early, is guilty of being fucking retarded. First of all, and I hate play the 'baaaaw it's to hard' card, but hear me out: ISG alone is a frame perfect trick. Let's say you manage to get a heart in the bushes first try, and get ISG without failing it or dieing, you still have to Poe hover, which isn't exactly childs play. So what exactly is the reward of this? Let's weigh the benefits and negatives of shadow early.

Rewards:
No ice cavern
Finish Water faster
No Shadow cutscene

Negatives:
Has the potential to waste massive amounts of time
Luck based
Shadow is suddenly 4x longer, as you can't do boat early (no longshot)

I also mention that Ice Cavern is a bit shorter because you can megaflip past the red ice in the first room to reach blue fire faster. Also, this gives you Seranade of Water for instant transport to the Water Temple (or close enough :P ) I'm not sure if you have to get the Zora Tunic, or of you can get away with not having it.

I rest my case, your honor.
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Norkix

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2012, 12:25:14 AM »

court adjourned. *BANG*
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 12:36:36 AM by Norkix »
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11:17 <Cosmo>: It's hard to tell what ASAP means with todays sequence breaks

gamestabled

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2012, 07:36:56 AM »

Dont forget about the benefits of hoverboots in forest and fire, but...

AGREED.

I still think we could find a way to skip longshot. All we need is to cross that gap, I will look for something later today. Also, I highly doubt we will need the zora tunic, considering when we go to water we will have at least 6 hearts.

I will skip iron boots.

It will happen.
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TaylorTotFTW

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2012, 08:01:12 AM »

We can't skip longshot, because remember now we need it to cross the spike room. But if you can figure out how, then go right ahead  ;D
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gamestabled

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Re: MST Route Discussion
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2012, 09:17:06 PM »

Why is it a ng+ route if you arent even using ng+ lol...

As child we can just get requiem (no spirit stuff) and as adult delay spirit temple until after shadow, and use hoverboots to get golden gauntlets before going to spirit.

Also nice water route. Puts mine to shame.

^just my first thoughts.
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