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Author Topic: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route  (Read 90335 times)

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CloudMax

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OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« on: February 22, 2012, 04:14:03 AM »

OoT3D NewGame+ [Farore's Wind/Value 13] Ganonless
-15 rupees
-Purchase nuts
-WWT forest escape
-Zelda
-Goron City
-3 deku sticks (2 in Darunia's room, 1 at stairs)
-Saria's Song
-Bracelet
-3 deku sticks (2 in Darunia's room, 1 at stairs)
-Bombs
-Magic
-DMT -> GC warp point
-Defeat Dodongo
-Wrong Warp

Glitches/Tricks used:
-NG+ [Farore's Wind/Value 13]
-Walking While Talking Forest Escape
-Enter the Castle Courtyard with just 1 box. To do this, push the first box as close to the edge as possible without making it fall, then jump straight toward the waterfall at the crawlspace, Link'll either barely make it up, or make an additional jump on the waterfall to make it.
-Broken Deku Stick for the lizalfos rooms. To get it, just walk up against the enemy and jumpslash it.
-Get Past Flame Circles without Slingshot
-Wrong Warp [DMT->GC|DC]
-Bombslide/forward slide.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 01:40:25 AM by CloudMax »
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Nook

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 07:12:38 AM »

How do you get from Zelda - Goron City - Saria in good time?

I did WWT Escape - Red Rupee from the Gate - Zelda - Buy Deku Sticks - Saria

Seems as though it's shorter to not go to Goron City an extra time

EDIT: Duh



« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 09:39:49 AM by Tom Nook »
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CloudMax

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 07:27:40 AM »

How do you get from Zelda - Goron City - Saria in good time?

I did WWT Escape - Red Rupee from the Gate - Zelda - Buy Deku Sticks - Saria

Seems as though it's shorter to not go to Goron City an extra time


Passing through Goron City allows you to open up the path to Lost Woods, get saria's song, and return to Goron city directly after that.
Going to Saria before Goron City would mean running all the way to Kokiri Forest, then saria, then back to kokiri forest, and all the way to goron city.
And buying sticks at shop is slower than picking them up, at least with my route.

mzxrules

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 08:34:33 AM »

Tom, you can use a deku stick and the flame from Darunia's room to light the bombs for the Goron City - Lost Woods shortcut
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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 01:10:33 PM »

46:31.5 with my messed up route, and a few good mistakes.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 09:41:49 AM by Tom Nook »
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poodleskirt

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 02:37:27 PM »

My current record is 34:54 for MQ, and nothing really went wrong, so I suspect using this route the time will max out around 34:00 but I'm not sure. there are probably small time savers I'm missing
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gamestabled

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 04:50:27 PM »

good luck. i am thouroughly convinced that slingshot skip is the hardest trick in this version of the game.
Also it is worth noting for people who dont realize, dying during this run means reset, because you lose your FW.
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Nook

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 05:30:37 PM »

43:11.1

There is no practicing for the slingshot skip, it almost can be called Bomb Luck. I wasted about 3 minutes on the second fire circle set. Otherwise, under 40 is definitely possible. There was also an instance where I was going from Zelda back to Kokiri by accident and realized half way there.

Getting ready to video record in the next few days, after some practice. This route is certainly finalized.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 05:34:47 PM by Tom Nook »
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CloudMax

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 01:30:45 AM »

43:11.1

There is no practicing for the slingshot skip, it almost can be called Bomb Luck. I wasted about 3 minutes on the second fire circle set. Otherwise, under 40 is definitely possible. There was also an instance where I was going from Zelda back to Kokiri by accident and realized half way there.

Getting ready to video record in the next few days, after some practice. This route is certainly finalized.

No practicing? Luck? If that's your opinion on slingshot skip, this should help you a lot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMtyo4vBp7g&list=UU3tiqNxITl1l-Nu_FALZX5w&index=1&feature=plcp

Aleckermit requested it so I gave it a go. Hopefully it'll be helpful for the two of you, and others that may want to improve the slingshot skip consistency.

So, if under 40 is possible, shouldn't MQ be like 3 minutes faster at least? Or does the rooms you actually have to do make up for the skip?
This is assuming that you do a perfect run in MQ and Normal, the difficulty should not be a factor in this. So you can't say that MQ saves more time simply because Slingshot skip is easier in it or something.

And yes, this route is pretty much final. What we need now is a way to access explosives faster, or magic without explosives (I don't think this'll happen). Explosives early is pretty much our only chance at improving the time. Some kind of groundjump and such would also be extremely helpful. what we need is to find more glitches, the route itself is good as it is right now.

I personally think that the most annoying part of the run is the damn keese, seriously. Sometimes they turn into life sucking monsters, and sometimes they just avoid you, especially in the circular room where you have to hit the switch in the center...
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 01:36:41 AM by CloudMax »
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Nook

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2012, 07:00:41 AM »

The keese actually put in the death factor, I think we need to put some more deku sticks in the run for them =D

We should all now make a push to find early Chus in BoTW or more glitches.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 09:34:31 AM by Tom Nook »
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aleckermit

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2012, 11:19:01 AM »

The keese actually put in the death factor, I think we need to put some more deku sticks in the run for them =D

We should all now make a push to find early Chus in BoTW or more glitches.


Did a NG+ run today, the keese were not an issue. You can always get a fairy from the pot after the little maze room before the block push.
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Nook

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2012, 11:28:05 AM »

Did a NG+ run today, the keese were not an issue. You can always get a fairy from the pot after the little maze room before the block push.
How was your time?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 08:57:42 PM by Tom Nook »
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aleckermit

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2012, 12:05:45 PM »

The bridge from the switch room to the room with the bomb chest has 2 almost inevitable Fire Keese, but I was kind of joking about them adding the death factor. How was your time?

Terrible, I was learning as I went and accidentally dispelled FW while trying to inch into the warp. Also got caught by guards twice (once in the yard somehow near the vine wall) 56:08. Low 30 is probably doable.
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Nook

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2012, 12:22:20 PM »

High 30 more likely, I still only make the fire circles at about 30 minute mark every time. Master Quest is now estimated low 30 though.

Also, Master Quest has to be harder. Just imagine, Keese taking 1 heart from you each hit. That is when they are life sucking monsters
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 09:00:32 PM by Tom Nook »
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Majora MIM

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 12:30:33 PM »

I'm pretty confused with the MQ NG+ route.
Do we have to Navi dive to zora's domain or to zora's river from lost woods?
Because I'm not sure it is possible without kokiri sword which we obviously won't be getting.


I had two recorded attempts today, one ended at sacred meadow because a scrub killed me (first time it happens to me) and I stoped the other halfway because there were too many mistakes (guards, owl, fire circles, and lack of a deku stick).
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CloudMax

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2012, 01:21:32 PM »

I'm pretty confused with the MQ NG+ route.
Do we have to Navi dive to zora's domain or to zora's river from lost woods?
Because I'm not sure it is possible without kokiri sword which we obviously won't be getting.


I had two recorded attempts today, one ended at sacred meadow because a scrub killed me (first time it happens to me) and I stoped the other halfway because there were too many mistakes (guards, owl, fire circles, and lack of a deku stick).

I have tried to come up with different MQ routes using the jabu chus, but none of them seem to be that fast to be honest.

This is the latest one I've written:
Kokiri Sword (Don't Equip)
Deku Shield & Deku Nuts
WWT Forest Escape
Zelda
Cucco Bottle
Magic
Lost Woods (Savewarp or go through GC if you have navi up)
Equip Sword & Shield
Navi Dive to River
Fish
TSC past KZ
Jabu Chus
Farore's Wind
Savewarp
Warp Point (Use restricted items)
Savewarp
Set the warp point to whatever place is the fastest to reach that takes you to credits. (Does Lost Woods -> Goron City take you to credits? Should test that)
Deku Tree
Warp to Credits (Use restricted items)

I have a feeling that this route isn't that fast... Mostly because we have to get a damn bottle just to get into jabu jabu.

Nook

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2012, 02:01:47 PM »

41:06.4

Only took 2 tries on the Slingshot skip

Majora MIM

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2012, 03:29:08 PM »

I have tried to come up with different MQ routes using the jabu chus, but none of them seem to be that fast to be honest.

This is the latest one I've written:
Kokiri Sword (Don't Equip)
Deku Shield & Deku Nuts
WWT Forest Escape
Zelda
Cucco Bottle
Magic
Lost Woods (Savewarp or go through GC if you have navi up)
Equip Sword & Shield
Navi Dive to River
Fish
TSC past KZ
Jabu Chus
Farore's Wind
Savewarp
Warp Point (Use restricted items)
Savewarp
Set the warp point to whatever place is the fastest to reach that takes you to credits. (Does Lost Woods -> Goron City take you to credits? Should test that)
Deku Tree
Warp to Credits (Use restricted items)

I have a feeling that this route isn't that fast... Mostly because we have to get a damn bottle just to get into jabu jabu.

Yes but this still isn't MQ NG+.
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poodleskirt

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2012, 04:40:21 PM »

Other small time savers for this route include throwing the first deku stick pot and then picking up the second pot and jumping on the deku stick (this causes link to drop the pot to hold the deku stick above his head, putting both in your inventory simultaneously), and using deku nuts on the wolfos/scrubs in the meadow.

Also, there exists a way to skip the DC boulder as child on other consoles, but it involves hovering. If there were a decent method to do this or some other way to skip the boulder on 3ds, the run would be something like 8-10 minutes shorter. I've been experimenting with megaflipping off of tektites to try to clip through it and it seems like I'm making headway but it's hard to tell if it's possible. Obviously if it were the route would have to change to include shield.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 07:15:18 PM by poodleskirt »
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cloudzack117

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2012, 07:13:12 PM »

tom nook is the shop keeper from animal crossing.  back on topic,  i was doing a mq ng+ route and got killed in the SFM.  I was wondering, how much faster is mq from reg because i havent gotten a run past the sfm because i keep getting killed by the scrub, but dont want to waste time buying a shield, but if the time differances are enough than im ok with it.
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gamestabled

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2012, 07:19:40 PM »

right now MQ is faster without ng+ i believe
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poodleskirt

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2012, 08:48:53 PM »

Cloudzack, you have 4 deku nuts, use them!

I think using the DC route in MQ is something like 10 minutes faster than non-MQ, at least comparing my time (34:54) to greenalink's. And as far as MQ without NG+, good luck doing wrong warp with restricted items.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 08:52:23 PM by poodleskirt »
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Nook

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2012, 09:17:20 PM »

I think using the DC route in MQ is something like 10 minutes faster than non-MQ, at least comparing my time (34:54) to greenalink's. And as far as MQ without NG+, good luck doing wrong warp with restricted items.
Is there a place where times are being compared? I'd like to know how my time is, and how much I should improve

poodleskirt

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2012, 09:22:01 PM »

Oh, sorry Tom Nook, I was actually referring to you and not Greenalink, earlier in the thread when you said you got 43:11.1 on non-MQ (very nice, btw).
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Nook

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2012, 09:47:54 PM »

Thank you, I actually got 41:06 that I posted earlier on the thread

If our runs are as tight as we both say, Master Quest is roughly 5 minutes faster
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 01:30:42 PM by Tom Nook »
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Majora MIM

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2012, 02:27:51 AM »

Other small time savers for this route include throwing the first deku stick pot and then picking up the second pot and jumping on the deku stick (this causes link to drop the pot to hold the deku stick above his head, putting both in your inventory simultaneously), and using deku nuts on the wolfos/scrubs in the meadow.

Also, there exists a way to skip the DC boulder as child on other consoles, but it involves hovering. If there were a decent method to do this or some other way to skip the boulder on 3ds, the run would be something like 8-10 minutes shorter. I've been experimenting with megaflipping off of tektites to try to clip through it and it seems like I'm making headway but it's hard to tell if it's possible. Obviously if it were the route would have to change to include shield.

Dafuq?
Why hovering over DC boulder? If you do it to skip goron bracelet then you won't be able to open DC first wall. If you do have bracelet, then why hovering over the boulder?

MQ NG+ seems impossible with farore's wind.
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poodleskirt

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2012, 06:55:20 AM »

Wow, I'm a complete idiot Majora MIM. Thanks for bringing me to the light.

Cloud, is that route you posted for MQ NG+? If not how do you get magic before explosives? Are you starting with hammer or something?
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Majora MIM

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2012, 07:43:42 AM »

Hammer can't destroy wall for magic.
Starting MQ ng+ with hammer would let us get to jjb early but slower than with just kokiri sword.

Unless we can navi dive without kokiri sword/triple slash, starting MQ with farore's wind on B is pointless.
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CloudMax

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2012, 09:02:11 AM »

That route was for megaton hammer NG+, and it got magic early with megaton hammer then after that you equip kokiri sword and use it in the rest of the run. So megaton hammer were just for early magic so that you skip 1 trip to jabu jabu (you'd have to go to jabu jabu, then dmt, then jabu jabu to get FW otherwise)

Quote
- Magic
- Farore's Wind alllll the way in Zora's Fountain (use the early Chus to open the wall)
- Saria
- DMT -> GC warp point
- Bracelet
- Bombs and beat King Dodongo/Wrong Warp

How would that be faster than just doing deku tree directly after getting Farore's wind?
That is what I do in the route I posted earlier.

And why on earth would we want to visit Saria, lol? The reason why we get early chus is to skip saria -_-'
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 09:05:34 AM by CloudMax »
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Nook

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2012, 10:44:24 AM »

So Master Quest runners, has anybody tried to Megaflip/Damage Boost to the Bomb Bag with the early Chus? It would save the slingshot skip and collecting Deku Sticks a second time

CloudMax

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2012, 11:58:08 AM »

So Master Quest runners, has anybody tried to Megaflip/Damage Boost to the Bomb Bag with the early Chus? It would save the slingshot skip and collecting Deku Sticks a second time

I still think deku tree would be faster with early chus, I honestly do not see how it would be faster to go through Dodongo.
Deku tree should be faster with the megaton hammer route (which should be the fastest route for early chus).

But using restricted items in the bluewarp is what prevents me from doing a MQ test run. I do not even want to bother with it. First you have a 1 frame window to pause, then after that you have a 1 frame window to press Farore's wind.
2 frame perfect inputs in a row, at the end of a run? Hell no.

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2012, 06:07:20 PM »

So whos up for a OOT3d any% race tomorrow? I think it will be the first on SRL and its shorter than child dungeons haha. I think about 4 EST or maybe later? Its saturday so Im sure most people are open.  ;D
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Nook

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2012, 08:21:49 PM »

I'll try to get on
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 08:55:28 PM by Tom Nook »
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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2012, 05:31:00 AM »

I'm getting around 45 to 50 minutes. Not great yet. Also just being clear it is any% ng+. 4 peopleisan okay sized race I think.
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poodleskirt

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2012, 11:10:24 AM »

I would participate but I've only been practicing MQ, maybe I'll figure out the trick.

I got most of the way through a run with cloudmax's MQ route, but I really don't think it's faster than DC route. Also, having to do restricted items wrong warp is pretty crippling to the route. If there was a good set up for jumping into the warp it's possible that you could pause buffer ("home" buffer) a restricted items use on the last frame but outside of that I don't see that trick happening in a good run consistently.
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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2012, 02:57:37 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgJifxJsJlA

My first OOT3D tutorial/demonstration. This one just goes over setting up your ng+ file. I don't know why the sounds was so messud up, but whatever. This video is only really beneficcial to people who dont know at all how to speedrun OOT yet (i teach bottle duping for BA), but if you decide to watch it I appreciate any suggestions for future videos ;D maybe I can get interest for a few more OOT3D runners?
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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2012, 05:25:48 PM »

You should record at night when people are sleeping, so you don't have to have any noise pollution and it's not weird for you to be sitting in a dark room by yourself. You could also include information such as value charts and links. It was informative though, and I enjoyed it =)

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2012, 08:13:22 PM »

Got a 42:18, def made a minute or more of mistakes. One of those sloppy days. I don't think I can do sub-40 with my current route/strats, maybe 40:40ish if done perfect.

I'll get a 40-41 and upload it so that we can work off of it.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 08:28:15 PM by aleckermit »
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cloudzack117

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2012, 08:40:19 PM »

i got a 45:25 this afternoon with a ton of mistakes, the biggest being that i was caught 4 times by the castle guards.  other than that it was pretty good.
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CloudMax

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Re: OoT3D NewGame+ [FW/13] Ganonless Route
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2012, 02:05:22 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgJifxJsJlA

My first OOT3D tutorial/demonstration. This one just goes over setting up your ng+ file. I don't know why the sounds was so messud up, but whatever. This video is only really beneficcial to people who dont know at all how to speedrun OOT yet (i teach bottle duping for BA), but if you decide to watch it I appreciate any suggestions for future videos ;D maybe I can get interest for a few more OOT3D runners?

I plan to do pretty much the same thing, but a more in depth one.
I'll explain the concept of different methods to get Deku Stick on B, why you get deku stick on B, the different methods of turning it into a bottle, then I'll explain BA in depth and ofc explain how to get Farore's Wind on B, then the different methods of starting NG+.
And after that I'll cut in an actual run I've done and explain everything I do along the way.
It'll all be one single video for it all though.
I hope to do all this next weekend, IF I can get my camera to record an entire run.
(last time I tried, it automatically stopped at 25 minutes. and in webcam mode the camera desync with the sound, and I have no way of changing the codec while recording, and almost none of the programs I've tired supports the colorscape it uses.)

I want to do more videos like these, I were going to make one for the different gauntlets and such, but never got around to it. The main reason for this is because it really is completely useless, it is just some visual thing.
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