ZSR Forums

Zelda => Majora's Mask 3D => Topic started by: hcbboyhammer12 on February 18, 2015, 07:01:55 PM

Title: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: hcbboyhammer12 on February 18, 2015, 07:01:55 PM
This is the glitch research and discovery topic! I have also compiled a list of useful links for those wishing to start speed running the game. Note that this list may be subject to change as by my (hcbboyhammer12) discretion or that of the staff members of Zelda Speed Runs.

List of Useful MM 3D Links (I do not own any of these, I just compiled this list):
Official MM 3D ZSR Page: http://zeldaspeedruns.com/mm3d/

Useful Spreadsheets/Documents
Mega MM 3D Glitch List: http://bombch.us/ybP
Alternative Glitch List: http://bombch.us/zHS
MM 3D Wrong Warp Table: http://bombch.us/zCR

Routes
Any% (last updated Feb. 20, 2015): http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/mm3d/route/any
100%: TBD
Glitchless (last updated Feb. 20, 2015): http://pastebin.com/Ddkyx5GM

MM 3D Streamers (in no particular order; If you would like to be added as a MM 3D streamer, please send your Stream info. to me in a PM here on the forums, and I will add you)
Benstephens56: http://www.twitch.tv/benstephens56/
TDutchNick96: http://www.twitch.tv/tdutchnick96/
FullGrownGaming: http://www.twitch.tv/fullgrowngaming/
gabyelnuevo: http://www.twitch.tv/gabyelnuevo/
Title: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: Cluck on February 18, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
Little time saver confirmed for the glitchless crowd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg2n5XVxtq0

(tbh it just looks cool)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: Squirelofjustice on February 19, 2015, 09:27:12 PM
http://youtu.be/-V4_UPAOIOo

For those who like buffering. It's really consistent considering the setups for this method are yolo. This is using a setup found by a youtuber by the name of David E.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: mzxrules on February 20, 2015, 02:40:38 AM
MM 3D Wrong Warp table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VEn4pgibY-MYAC8ecQZxtyrsLXC9ogClDKiTmA66FlQ/edit?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: WiseHorror on February 20, 2015, 03:17:11 AM
Alright I'm posting this here even though there's no way to achieve this without cheats and has no apparent effect, I find it interesting.
So I was messing around with my Action Replay PowerSaves and found this curiosity.
I started a new save file and saved at the owl as soon as I was able to walk around Clock Town(1st cycle as Deku Link).
Then I activated all mask cheat and booted the game up again. When I talk to the Bombers as Link they give this ERROR message because I'm supposed to have the Bombers Notebook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_cerXhpLjU
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: thestickystickman on February 20, 2015, 06:51:11 AM
Alright I'm posting this here even though there's no way to achieve this without cheats and has no apparent effect, I find it interesting.
So I was messing around with my Action Replay PowerSaves and found this curiosity.
I started a new save file and saved at the owl as soon as I was able to walk around Clock Town(1st cycle as Deku Link).
Then I activated all mask cheat and booted the game up again. When I talk to the Bombers as Link they give this ERROR message because I'm supposed to have the Bombers Notebook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_cerXhpLjU

I think that's to be expected, they couldn't tell whether you had finished whatever random event they were going to tell you about, so they just spat out a generic error message.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: Jeville on February 20, 2015, 06:58:37 AM
If they will never alert you with anything, it would be like the original game. Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: CloudMax on February 20, 2015, 07:16:11 AM
I found a way to get Bottle on B as Link and Goron. By doing BA with Links B Bottle you get the same effect as GnS did when doing GIM.
Game thinks you are on the first cycle so you get the first cycle Termina, in gear it says that you only have the ocarina and no other instruments, you can't use any of the instruments.

Start of by getting bottle on B as Goron.
To get Bottle on B as goron you dupe over the ocarina in curiosity shop. (Do collection delay, take out ocarina, put it away). Instead of overwriting the ocarina, it will overwrite Goron Links B item.
Now go to Honey & Darling and use Goron Transformation Storage.
As soon as the minigame starts, put the mask back in your inventory, this will transform you back to Link.
End the minigame.

You will now have Bottle on B as Link.

This would've been much faster if it was possible to do it with Deku Link, as you can easily get bottle on B for deku. (Just ESS dupe when you are out of magic)
The problem is that I haven't found a way to make link take off the deku mask during H&D, so we have to use Goron or Zora instead, and I don't think there's a known way to get Bottle on B as zora.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: Segfault on February 20, 2015, 08:01:04 AM
MM 3D Wrong Warp table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VEn4pgibY-MYAC8ecQZxtyrsLXC9ogClDKiTmA66FlQ/edit?usp=sharing

Fantastic job! How did you manage to sort this out? Is it data pulled from the N64 version, or is there a good method for dumping 3DS memory data? It would be nice if we could actually look at what data the gibdo glitch writes so we can find a reliable way to WW.

The glitch is actually really reliable if you do it correctly. Simply kill Goth to turn the map into spring, save and restart the game. Start a timer the second you start the game, load your save, run to the hot spring and wait until the timer reaches 2:10. Fill the glitched bottle, play inverted song of time, fill the bottle again and run out. 10/10
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: WiseHorror on February 20, 2015, 11:41:09 AM
I just found text storage with the previous ERROR message from Bombers that I uploaded I found that it actually stores the text that the Bomber was supposed to say, and so when I talk to the girls dancing the text then pops up. It also pops up when you talk to Tatl. It seems to only work on some NPCs' text. For example, postman and guard don't trigger the text to pop up for some reason.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juJ1V7BQiXU
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: Jeville on February 20, 2015, 01:50:39 PM
When I talk to the Bombers as Link they give this ERROR message because I'm supposed to have the Bombers Notebook.
Yeah, I think it's also because the bombers don't have 'Where are you from?' dialogue for human Link anymore.

Edit: I came across a music glitch, but don't know how to replicate it yet. Parts of the final 6 hours music was still playing after I went back in time and it meshes with the music of the area I was in. The effect will not go away after changing areas until I reset the game. How this happened is I went back in time after entering the Great Bay Temple for the first time with little time remaining.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: General Speedrunning| Research & Discovery
Post by: HalfAWalrus on February 20, 2015, 07:21:18 PM
I cannot figure out how timestop works in this game, can someone please explain how it works, and what the inputs are?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: GlitchesAndStuff on February 21, 2015, 01:03:19 AM
I found a way to get Bottle on B as Link and Goron. By doing BA with Links B Bottle you get the same effect as GnS did when doing GIM.
Game thinks you are on the first cycle so you get the first cycle Termina, in gear it says that you only have the ocarina and no other instruments, you can't use any of the instruments.

Start of by getting bottle on B as Goron.
To get Bottle on B as goron you dupe over the ocarina in curiosity shop. (Do collection delay, take out ocarina, put it away). Instead of overwriting the ocarina, it will overwrite Goron Links B item.
Now go to Honey & Darling and use Goron Transformation Storage.
As soon as the minigame starts, put the mask back in your inventory, this will transform you back to Link.
End the minigame.

You will now have Bottle on B as Link.

This would've been much faster if it was possible to do it with Deku Link, as you can easily get bottle on B for deku. (Just ESS dupe when you are out of magic)
The problem is that I haven't found a way to make link take off the deku mask during H&D, so we have to use Goron or Zora instead, and I don't think there's a known way to get Bottle on B as zora.

In theory you shouldn't have to BA with link's B button bottle, just catch anything in the bottle and it should also write it to the ocarina 'slot' which triggers 1st cycle shenanigans. But catching HSW in it would also allow us to perform the BA with slot 0 (ocarina) which wasn't possible before :)

I cannot figure out how timestop works in this game, can someone please explain how it works, and what the inputs are?

Do mask storage with a bottled item out (read up on it on ZSR) and then sidehop, while in the air let go of shield & re-hold shield. Try to press the bottle button just as link lands.  If you don't get it, repeat the process (sidehop, Let go of R, hold R, press bottle)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: General Speedrunning| Research & Discovery
Post by: GlitchesAndStuff on February 21, 2015, 01:07:03 AM
Also, the MM3D tricks document in the first post is the old one which got graffiti'd a while back. There's a new nicer one which has continued receiving full updates: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M0k0t16HvEakN8kBkSruca5-QS_whJB0ICq8hlYXtjE/edit#gid=0
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: General Speedrunning| Research & Discovery
Post by: Jeville on February 21, 2015, 02:56:45 AM
The old one was fine last night and it was updated with two sheets to differentiate between the old and new glitches. It also had several descriptions more updated than in the new one (FD anywhere is one), and most of the graffiti I've seen were only in the titles with the rest fairly organized but that's all lost now.

I noticed that Epona's position no longer resets with Song of Time. What happens if we manage to place her where she normally can't be, dismount and then reload the area? Will she be back at the ranch, or be completely gone until the song is played?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: General Speedrunning| Research & Discovery
Post by: SlaskPrask on February 21, 2015, 06:50:58 AM
Found an easy and consistent setup for sakons hideout early, it uses one bomb but it's consistens so I don't really mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toS4nGxeLuA

Also found an ocean title deed skip, but it cant pe used for hundo because of notebook:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n72bOm7984
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on February 21, 2015, 09:08:06 AM
Idk if you guys already knew, but you can still get the HP from the swamp house without the deku flower, it just need a (not even that precise) goron pound canceling it midair and hold (lets say) up to get ontop of the little roof
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 22, 2015, 01:05:07 AM
In the Wrong Warp docs, the comment for the Goron Shop says sometimes crashes, sometimes warps. Shouldn't we check areas that crash to make sure that they always crash?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: SlaskPrask on February 22, 2015, 03:11:31 AM
Pirates fortress long jump setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwA4KcSKlY

The first slash is really picky, but after that it's easy.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on February 22, 2015, 05:04:19 AM
I found a way to do Restricted Items. The only requirement is being able to go into first person camera.
Have an usable item on I, X, Y or II.  (or use a blank button instead, but blank does not work in some restricted areas like fishing pond)
Enter FPS.
Put an unusable item over the one you could use, it will remain usable while in first person.
Now exit first person camera and directly after click on the item you normally shouldn't be able to use. There's a small window where it's usable (feels like more than one frame, quite easy to do)

Edit: You can steal fishing rod same way you did in OoT3D with this. Use an explosive to get hit while using the rod and just walk out.
No need for soaring or elegy.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: thestickystickman on February 22, 2015, 07:34:24 AM
I found a way to do Restricted Items. The only requirement is being able to go into first person camera.
Have an usable item on I, X, Y or II.  (or use a blank button instead, but blank does not work in some restricted areas like fishing pond)
Enter FPS.
Put an unusable item over the one you could use, it will remain usable while in first person.
Now exit first person camera and directly after click on the item you normally shouldn't be able to use. There's a small window where it's usable (feels like more than one frame, quite easy to do)

Edit: You can steal fishing rod same way you did in OoT3D with this. Use an explosive to get hit while using the rod and just walk out.
No need for soaring or elegy.

Can't get this to work, could we get a video?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on February 22, 2015, 07:51:06 AM
Can't get this to work, could we get a video?

Do you have the pictograph? I am not sure, but it may be required.


Edit:
Some random pictograph stuff:
You can enter the bubble shooting mode and first person camera at the same time as deku. you'll be in camera mode, but with the target circle on screen. You can take pictures with the target present on them.
When taking pictures in 2D, they can not be displayed in 3D.
If you take the picture in 3D, and display it in 2D, you'll see the left picture. (so things will be seen slightly from the left on the picture)
Entering a flower & going into FPS at the same time time plays the initial burrowing sound, but then it just goes into camera mode like normally.
You can L-Target (and shield) and enter first person at the same time. You'll go into camera mode, but the Return button on the touch screen will be greyed out / disabled.
You can catch something in a bottle and enter first person at the same time. After the dialog is over you go into first person mode.
You can enter grottos (and other loading zones) and enter first person at the same time. You see the pictograph frame thingy on screen as screen fades out..
If you start dancing with kamaro's mask & L-Target and try to enter first person at the same time, the pictograph makes an error sound.
After changing form, pictograph is disabled for a moment.
if you don't have solid ground below you, you can't take out pictograph (like slashing with sword at the very edge at a ledge and attempting to take it out).
after climbing up some ledges, pictograph is disabled for a moment. (related to the point above?)
By timing the pictograph button when going in and out of L-Targeting quickly you can hear the error sound.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: hcbboyhammer12 on February 22, 2015, 08:52:40 AM
guys, it would be great if you update the glitch list doc, thanks you sexy people!
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on February 22, 2015, 09:27:59 AM
For the RI CloudMax, the easiest way is press L and the button at the same time, fireblaze thought of it and is super easy ;0 amazing find btw CloudMax =)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: xdflames on February 22, 2015, 09:45:09 AM
Toast found this and mentioned it on IRC, I can get it consistently now and made a video with shoddy camera work.

You can timestop without Mask Storage if you do a backflip (side hop probably works) and as soon as you land pull out bottle (with something inside of it) and shield, you can end it by using the look button.

http://youtu.be/teVAyn0i2L0

Tried it on the Stone Tower switch, it will press the switch down but it delays so the block doesn't move until you end timestop.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 22, 2015, 10:47:42 AM
Impractical powder keg skip for the ranch using Gibdo Mask BA and 0th Day:

1. Save at Mountain Village.

2. Quit the game.

3. Start a timer with a stopwatch as soon as you open the game.

4. Go to the HSW grotto.

5. When the timer reaches 1:25 minutes (up to at least 1:30 is still good), get the HSW in the duped bottle.

6. Immediately after HSW text goes away, mash Ocarina. If you get purple banner when taking it out, you'll have to start over.

7. Play Inverted Song of Time. You're now on 0th Day.

8. Soar out to Milk Road.

It's no longer 0th Day, but the area will be based on it which makes the boulder missing. The boulder will be presented when you reload the area.

If you do this glitch at nighttime, 0th Day must not be past midnight. If you soar out past midnight, the game will propels you to Dawn of the 5th Day (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTCemKcBxhseYY) (pseudo 1st Day).

0th Day is a 3-Day cycle reset, except the events will not reset. Postman example (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTCiSuMgmmDIRi).
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on February 22, 2015, 01:52:38 PM
Pirates fortress long jump setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwA4KcSKlY

The first slash is really picky, but after that it's easy.
Does this only work with Gilded Sword? Because in a run you wouldn't have Gilded at that point, and I know the swords have slightly different hitboxes.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BALDORF! on February 22, 2015, 02:09:10 PM
Found some stunlocks on Majora's Incarnation and Wrath, not sure how much faster it is to do it this way, or if at all. Sorry for bad video examples, just trying to get the idea across without having to refilm the fight over and over.

Incarnation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCixd8e_y7c&feature=youtu.be

Wrath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUOh11fzZec&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: xdflames on February 22, 2015, 04:27:57 PM
Found some stunlocks on Majora's Incarnation and Wrath, not sure how much faster it is to do it this way, or if at all. Sorry for bad video examples, just trying to get the idea across without having to refilm the fight over and over.

Incarnation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCixd8e_y7c&feature=youtu.be

Wrath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUOh11fzZec&feature=youtu.be
Wrath definitely, but with perfect quick spins against the wall Incarnation is easier to kill, and doesn't require constant mask switching.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 22, 2015, 05:22:03 PM
Can't get this to work, could we get a video?
Were you trying with the Hookshot/Bow/Deku Stick? Those ones don't work; Link just puts them away.

It was nice seeing transformation forms planting Magic Beans, heh. It never made sense that they can't.

Edit: I found another way for RI without the Pictograph Box; it requires a Deku Flower. Be Deku, equip an usable item then launch. While hovering, replace the usable item with an unusable one and you'll notice the button is not faded. You'll have to land in helicoptering mode and mash the button, because dropping will fade the button. I noticed this detail in the original but didn't get it to work.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on February 22, 2015, 11:25:06 PM
Were you trying with the Hookshot/Bow/Deku Stick? Those ones don't work; Link just puts them away.

It was nice seeing transformation forms planting Magic Beans, heh. It never made sense that they can't.

Edit: I found another way for RI without the Pictograph Box; it requires a Deku Flower. Be Deku, equip an usable item then launch. While hovering, replace the usable item with an unusable one and you'll notice the button is not faded. You'll have to land in helicoptering mode and mash the button, because dropping will fade the button. I noticed this detail in the original but didn't get it to work.

As mentioned in the chat, this probably works in all scenarios where the items don't change usable because of current state. (I found the pictograph method with that mindset)
also, pretty sure he didn't mean using bow, etc.
you literally can't do it at all without pictograph (ii think thats the reason anyway)
thr usability does not get stuck on slots without it.
(it could be shoot A that causes this state)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 23, 2015, 12:29:48 AM
I'm not sure I follow. The Deku Flower method not working without Pictograph Box? I tried it in the first 3-Day cycle without it and it was working, you just need the magic meter.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on February 23, 2015, 12:32:10 AM
I'm not sure I follow. The Deku Flower method not working without Pictograph Box? I tried it in the first 3-Day cycle without it and it was working, you just need the magic meter.

I meant the other method.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: mzxrules on February 23, 2015, 08:39:09 AM
Fantastic job! How did you manage to sort this out? Is it data pulled from the N64 version, or is there a good method for dumping 3DS memory data? It would be nice if we could actually look at what data the gibdo glitch writes so we can find a reliable way to WW.

I extracted the data off of a ram dump. It's possible via an exploit in the web browser.

Considering the gibdo mask ww is time based, it's clear that the 64 bit timer is what's overwriting the important bit of data needed to trigger the ww.

I've worked on trying to bind the tested entrances to proper entrance indexes which you can see at my ww doc link
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VEn4pgibY-MYAC8ecQZxtyrsLXC9ogClDKiTmA66FlQ/edit?usp=sharing
I noticed an oddity though: the WW test doc stated that Mayor's WW lead to milk road, when my data dump suggests that this should be impossible. Can anyone explain? Additionally, please check for errors.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: ProfessionalRob on February 23, 2015, 09:12:06 AM
If someone with editing privileges wants to change it on the front page, the trick to get into the graves early with a Goron damage boost actually works on any of the three graves.  Whenever you "check" the grave, Goron Link takes a step back, you just have to position yourself so you step back onto the sloped part of the grave when you check it.  Also for the Day 3 grave it helps to kill one of the two bats since it's right under their tree.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
Post by: thestickystickman on February 23, 2015, 10:44:51 AM
I extracted the data off of a ram dump. It's possible via an exploit in the web browser.

Considering the gibdo mask ww is time based, it's clear that the 64 bit timer is what's overwriting the important bit of data needed to trigger the ww.

I've worked on trying to bind the tested entrances to proper entrance indexes which you can see at my ww doc link
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VEn4pgibY-MYAC8ecQZxtyrsLXC9ogClDKiTmA66FlQ/edit?usp=sharing
I noticed an oddity though: the WW test doc stated that Mayor's WW lead to milk road, when my data dump suggests that this should be impossible. Can anyone explain? Additionally, please check for errors.

Would you mind explaining what the final page means?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: SlaskPrask on February 23, 2015, 01:18:04 PM
Does this only work with Gilded Sword? Because in a run you wouldn't have Gilded at that point, and I know the swords have slightly different hitboxes.

This one is much better and more consistent and works with every sword:
http://t.co/TtyXcmPOgd
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on February 23, 2015, 08:10:46 PM
Just a few things I've discovered so far. They probably were in the original but just in case they weren't, here they are:

A small timesaver when meeting Kafei. If you roll into the wall when you enter the backroom, you can target Kafei through it and talk to him.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTClxwA7mdqA0d)

An odd semi-OoB part in the mountain pass. Leaving a snow boulder near a large crack in the wall let's you roll up the wall. From there you can side hop up into the crack. Looks to be useless, but w/e.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTCvhBsokQu27C)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BALDORF! on February 23, 2015, 09:18:20 PM
Wrath definitely, but with perfect quick spins against the wall Incarnation is easier to kill, and doesn't require constant mask switching.

If you do it right, after first arrow you shouldn't have to switch back til Wrath.

Also, I havn't seen anyone else do it, but you can get an extra hit in on Goht with fire arrows when he gets up to run again, they will still hurt him when he's moving if it hits the right spot
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on February 23, 2015, 09:30:16 PM
So since you can RI with Deku flower, I noticed you don't need an usable to make RI work, you can just switch it with an empty button and works, could this mean something with Deku + bombs = something big in cycle 1? O.o GG grezzo with the buttons and RI #Kappa
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Squirelofjustice on February 23, 2015, 10:10:27 PM
Iirc Gaby, someone a while back said something about being able to get bombs or something first cycle. Definitely something to look into.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 24, 2015, 12:25:47 AM
It's simple, the Bomb Shop owner allows you to buy them as Deku. You cannot buy anything from the Trading Post, so you'll need the Deku Nut from the chest before the Termina portal in order to use bombs. Swapping with a blank button (I/X/Y/II) cannot work before unlocking nuts due to B being faded when in the air otherwise.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on February 24, 2015, 05:46:58 AM
Ohh, so you do need to get nuts, i was just trying in my normal file, i only had deku on 2 and bombs on X, nothing else, went into the flower flew out and when i swapped with empty Y it made it visible, didnt know is cuz nuts were on B xD
I've been trying out, long jumps, bomb recoils and stuff with Deku in ECT and SCT, no luck in any yet :\
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on February 24, 2015, 05:51:47 AM
I skipped the elegy puzzle in stone tower: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn0PixMOKKQ

This was the final piece of the puzzle for skipping elegy and mirror shield in any% thanks to gymnast for finding a way to skip the mirror shield in the mirror room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYXbnjpya0s

This allows us to do a transition warp with gibdo mask BA in order to get to stone tower temple early and skip the entirety of stone tower!
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Sebastian9kplus on February 24, 2015, 07:20:40 AM
Wow! Loving the new RI method, I've tried it three times and succeeded three times; so easy to just hit L + the item. Easiest and fastest way to become FD Link anywhere :P
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on February 24, 2015, 07:22:42 AM
Welp apparently we still need a way to clip into the milk bar... evrybody, please find a way to do this!!
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Sebastian9kplus on February 24, 2015, 07:41:13 AM
lol I was playing by the pond in Clock Town wearing the Fierce Deity Mask, and I noticed he is tall enough to reach to jump up on the wall to the left of where you enter. You can then walk on the wall until you're above the door to where Kafei is hiding, where I jumped out of bounds and reached the loading zone with a jump slash. I didn't do any of that sidequest and this was on the night of the final day, and the Curiosity Shop guy was there and gave me the letter to Kafei's mother.

This probably has basically no use at all, just thought I should mention it anyway! Oh, and perhaps it's possible to reach up and grab that wall with a Zora gainer? I can't do it, I suck at it.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on February 24, 2015, 08:02:14 AM
This probably has basically no use at all, just thought I should mention it anyway! Oh, and perhaps it's possible to reach up and grab that wall with a Zora gainer? I can't do it, I suck at it.

You can do it with just a Zora sidehop: http://youtu.be/1Dww8bA91cw
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: mzxrules on February 24, 2015, 08:08:40 AM
Would you mind explaining what the final page means?

The Wrong Warp (All) tab lists a subset of all theoretical wrong warps possible in Majora's Mask 3D. The full list of theoretical wrong warps isn't there because it would be over 50k records

With OoT/MM wrong warps, the two primary components are an entrance index and a scene setup number, so normally you'd need both. However in MM the entrance index is a composite of three variables:

Code: [Select]
(index & 0xF800) >> 9 = External Scene
(index & 0x01F0) >> 5 = Spawn Number
(index & 0x000F)      = Unused? component, but functionally equivalent to factoring in the scene setup number

So the entrance index and scene setup components are combined together. I also dropped entrances that don't normally exist.

Edit: I also should point out that if new revisions are released, it could change the available wrong warps
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Sebastian9kplus on February 24, 2015, 08:20:15 AM
You can do it with just a Zora sidehop: http://youtu.be/1Dww8bA91cw
Cool! Thanks. Easy way to get both Postman Hat and that bottle without having to redo the sidequest.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Tailsko on February 24, 2015, 09:25:32 AM
Welp apparently we still need a way to clip into the milk bar... evrybody, please find a way to do this!!
I was able to ledge clip between the Milk Bar and the one side. But fell down. Gonna keep trying til I stand on the ground.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on February 24, 2015, 11:59:15 AM
In the search for milk bar clip, keep in my that this will be after doing some BA for 4th day so we can technically have fierce diety or rock sirloin to help us clip, even though I'm doubtful that either could help.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 24, 2015, 12:20:59 PM
We also have access to a cucco from the Bombers' test, however that may help.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Pedalpowertoast on February 24, 2015, 08:15:45 PM
Thing with that is, Grezzo moved the Cucco Bombers kid, he's in a different part of the Town now and hides under a box...
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Tailsko on February 24, 2015, 08:54:39 PM
Hmm, maybe there is collision behind the sign. Time a bomb and ledge clip maybe? http://i.imgur.com/KShVxx3.jpg
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on February 24, 2015, 09:18:52 PM
I tried the clip all day with FD and a bomb, and i didn't touch the loading zone for like frames ;( neither a jump slash can't make it
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 24, 2015, 11:30:58 PM
Thing with that is, Grezzo moved the Cucco Bombers kid, he's in a different part of the Town now and hides under a box...
The sad thing is I've already done the test to see the changes and should have known. I've made several trips to WCT for the bank when it's not there anymore; aspects of the original are still ingrained in me.

Instead of finding a way to get inside, maybe find a way to not get kicked out? Pausing is the original's method. You're allowed inside until 9pm.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Slowking on February 25, 2015, 12:42:26 AM
I skipped the elegy puzzle in stone tower: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn0PixMOKKQ

This was the final piece of the puzzle for skipping elegy and mirror shield in any% thanks to gymnast for finding a way to skip the mirror shield in the mirror room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYXbnjpya0s

This allows us to do a transition warp with gibdo mask BA in order to get to stone tower temple early and skip the entirety of stone tower!
Nice.
That room is quite a bit different in 3D. Always a disadvantge not having the actual game yet. :D

With that high block you might even be able to backflip on that upside down chest as zora and get oob that way. Worth a try, I'd say.

Welp apparently we still need a way to clip into the milk bar... evrybody, please find a way to do this!!
So I guess there is no way to get there before 9? And getting the mask would take a lot of time...

Regarding the ideas that have been thrown around so far: There is no oob floor there and the sign has a solid back wall.

I don't see a way to clip, unless slope clip is still a thing, which I kinda doubt.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 25, 2015, 06:21:07 AM
Heart piece duplication!! You need 5th Day to do this:

1. Save at Mountain Village with Gibdo Mask slot changed to a bottle.
2. Quit the game, get a stopwatch.
3. Start a timer when you open the game.
4. When timer reaches 1:25, catch HSW.
5. Inverted Song of Time quickly. If purple banner says 2nd/Final Day, start over.*
6. Soar to town.
7. Speak to the carpenter carrying wood.
8. Carpenter will stay in place. Put on Postman's hat and check mailbox.
9. You'll move around with the text. Hookshot the 20 Rupee chest.
10. Face the camera to the mailbox and open the chest.
11. Gold Rupee will appear on Link but you'll get a heart piece and another.
12. Do not check the mailbox. Go back in time.
13. Repeat all steps. You get two pieces each time.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTDG--Y94QWJHA) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTDGKxwaDVysAh)

Notes:
The carpenter will either have to be close enough to the mailbox, or to have the camera facing him when you check.
Tapping buttons will not work when you move around with text, so only B/X/Y can be used.
*If you take Ocarina out fast enough to not see purple banner, you'll be on 0th Day so advance to midnight before soaring out to take you to dawn of 5th Day (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTCemKcBxhseYY).
Google docs for 5th Day stuff can be viewed here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yohIlHi0bIOTi6xntJmnh-gq-He0AusWQBCl2Oagu2Y/edit?usp=sharing).
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Letsremax on February 25, 2015, 07:19:21 AM
Pretty sure this is kinda useless but while Practicing Music house clip i kinda got distracted and i was wondering if i could get on top of the House using LongJump.

While i soon found out that there is a Barrier around the top of the House, i kept trying every corner....well this happened.
I'm pretty sure this was found earlier but i was surprised when it happened, but also i'm pretty sure it's kinda useless here.

http://www.twitch.tv/letsremax/c/6197929 (http://www.twitch.tv/letsremax/c/6197929)

What i later discovered is that you cant walk, just turn around and slash you sword.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CrimZen on February 25, 2015, 10:19:00 AM
What i later discovered is that you cant walk, just turn around and slash you sword.

Found an invisible platform right besides the owl in clocktown, the interesting thing is- you can damageboost with a bomb from the platform(Like the current strat for getting to great bay)
If we find one of these platforms in a good spot, we might be able to find some skips!


Edit: Like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaHsJE8iKJ0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaHsJE8iKJ0)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Lilysol on February 25, 2015, 10:33:45 AM
Heart piece duplication!!

Easier way to duplicate heart pieces. Find a chest with a heart piece (The one in the hole outside Mountain Village works nice. Just clear out the Dodongos first)

Time stop (Backflip, then simultaneously shield and use a full bottle right when Link's feet hit the ground.

Open the chest infinite times.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 25, 2015, 10:51:46 AM
Great, just another impractical thing from me haha.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on February 25, 2015, 12:53:44 PM
Alternate method for getting up on the graves:
Use goron pound below the tree branches to get up onto the tree. sidehop onto the grave.
By the graveyard entrance, as Zora Link (or regular link with a gainer) you can grab the pillar to the right from the north side. From that pillar you can do a longjump to the grave closest to it.

I don't know anything about the graveyard, like when different enemies spawn.. but with this you can get in when the keese aren't there.

Edit: Apparantly you can do a Zora Gainer up onto the tree branch as well.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on February 25, 2015, 04:25:26 PM
I know Pirate Fortress is skipped in Any%, but I found a way to skip fighting one of the Gerudo's for one of the other categories.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTDLi_oYD5duCt) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTDLnaE-SZyw47)

Standing there a doing a roll jump  and moving yourself in the air can get you to land on the ledge.

I also found some weird save diving thing. If you go to Zora Hall's owl statue, and face the ocean and check it, you'll fall into the water. It's really weird and I don't know if it has any use but well, here it is anyways: (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTDKvWcUVGcL8-)

Sorry if these have been found already!  :P
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on February 25, 2015, 07:45:04 PM
Has anyone talked about how "race files" how are they gonna be in mm3d? For bingos or random 10 masks races etc, since you don't start cycle 1 anymore "since day transition" but from an owl, I think it can be the same thing as MM, 101r in bank, have SoH and Deku on a button, and i guess start from SCT owl with the time at 7am, that would be SoDT to 7 and immediately save after :p
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on February 25, 2015, 10:11:16 PM
I know Pirate Fortress is skipped in Any%, but I found a way to skip fighting one of the Gerudo's for one of the other categories.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTDLi_oYD5duCt) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTDLnaE-SZyw47)

Standing there a doing a roll jump  and moving yourself in the air can get you to land on the ledge.

I also found some weird save diving thing. If you go to Zora Hall's owl statue, and face the ocean and check it, you'll fall into the water. It's really weird and I don't know if it has any use but well, here it is anyways: (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTDKvWcUVGcL8-)

Sorry if these have been found already!  :P
The pirate Fortress method can be done by sidehopping as a Zora as well, that's how I did it my on first playthrough.
and yeah, you can dive during dialogs. You can do it super easy outside Kafeis house by the bell. This is not exclusive to the owl dialogs.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: mzxrules on February 26, 2015, 03:45:16 AM
Easier way to duplicate heart pieces. Find a chest with a heart piece (The one in the hole outside Mountain Village works nice. Just clear out the Dodongos first)

Time stop (Backflip, then simultaneously shield and use a full bottle right when Link's feet hit the ground.

Open the chest infinite times.

Does that mean we can collect an infinite number of keys? Also, does this affect GIM?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 26, 2015, 07:07:46 AM
Does that mean we can collect an infinite number of keys? Also, does this affect GIM?
No, because it has to be a full cutscene that small chests are lacking. At least that's how it works on N64, and using timestop for infinite heart pieces is nothing new.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: LucyRomana on February 26, 2015, 09:28:47 AM
There seems to be an update out for the game, at least in Europe. Anyone know what it does?

Sorry if this is old news.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on February 26, 2015, 10:05:57 AM
Just a little thing if anybody hasn't tried yet, Aron just confirmed to get a hookshot jump (aka doom jump) out of a gibdo by accident, doom jump hype x))
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 26, 2015, 01:33:49 PM
Walking in first-person:

1. Do the first seven steps of the heart duplication method.
2. Check mailbox without the Postman's hat while the carpenter is in view or being close enough.
3. While moving with the trading screen, select an item with the camera facing away from mailbox.
4. Go to the banker and do not allow the camera to face south.
5. When in front of him, use Pictograph Box (Deku shooting mode works too). Enjoy.

To do easy RI, be the form you want to be then only do the first three steps above (it doesn't work with Goron). Items will be highlighted and continues to be usable even if you change them. This allows you to wield Deku Sticks with other forms, etc. Just don't face the camera to the mailbox you used or you will crash. If the camera faces it while you make movement, Link will do a brief slide while taking out the item you selected from the trading screen before the game crashes; you can quit the game before the crash can happen.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: thestickystickman on February 26, 2015, 02:13:24 PM
Walking in first-person:

1. Do the first seven steps of the heart duplication method.
2. Check mailbox without the Postman's hat while the carpenter is in view or being close enough.
3. While moving with the trading screen, select an item with the camera facing away from mailbox.
4. Go to the banker and do not allow the camera to face south.
5. When in front of him, use Pictograph Box (Deku shooting mode works too). Enjoy.

You can also do it as deku Link by stepping onto a lily pad, taking off the deku mask, and putting it on again, then going into first person. You'll be in first person mode.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Tailsko on February 26, 2015, 08:09:50 PM
v1.1 update is live. restricted item works. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/3ds/ajrj/update/index.html

Anyone with the JP version. Can you bottle dupe over Gibdo Mask. I cannot. Need someone else to test this.

Patch size is 34 blocks
Region: Japan
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: doommaker on February 26, 2015, 08:52:15 PM
Just a little thing if anybody hasn't tried yet, Aron just confirmed to get a hookshot jump (aka doom jump) out of a gibdo by accident, doom jump hype x))
This is awesome! Here's some information about the trick that I haven't seen anywhere:

The hookshot jump works by interrupting the animation (cut scene?) where Link is suppose to be flying towards the object he shot, skipping to the end of that animation (which will happen once Link is close enough to his target because the hookshot will be fully recoiled) will result in link getting shot upwards.

I highly suggest you watch this for a visual reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tt8sTVcPc8#t=144 (2:24) It's basically a slow motion doom jump using Epona instead of boots. Also, YES! this would work in this mm3d as well if you could use items on Epona.

In OoT3d, conveniently, by equipping different boots Link would perform a jumping animation which was actually enough to interrupt his hookshot's pull with out canceling it. The reason why we need to look up (or down) before taking the shot and switching boots is because the hookshot's pull animation has to be present for at least a frame (I think. More frames the higher but it caps.), In the video it's there for a few seconds.

Basically the Gibdo's scream works as an "interrupter". It worked in OoT3d as well but I guess no one knew or they just never said anything. The timing can be tricky though, so hopefully a consistent method is thought of.

NOTE: I don't know why Link is shot upwards and a lot of this information is off the top of my head so it may not be 100% accurate.

v1.1 update is live. restricted item works. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/3ds/ajrj/update/index.html

Anyone with the JP version. Can you bottle dupe over Gibdo Mask. I cannot. Need someone else to test this.

Patch size is 34 blocks
Region: Japan
This sounds terrifying. Forgive my ignorance but, why are they updating it?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Lilysol on February 26, 2015, 09:56:44 PM
This sounds terrifying. Forgive my ignorance but, why are they updating it?

The main reason they'd want to patch the Gibdo match (or BA shenanigans in general) is because some variations can crash the game. It doesn't really apply much to the speed running community as a whole, as I think we all agree that skipping the Zora egg quest, and all of Great Bay Temple is in all of our best interests.

Pretty sure we just all agree to use V1.0 unless they manage to screw the game up even more through patches. Which I guess is more than likely possible given Grezzo's track record.

Edit: On a related note for anyone with access to the patch, what's broken with BA? Can you still get ESS? Does BA work on any of the other masks?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Seb9kplus on February 26, 2015, 10:13:34 PM
I have the european version and the update is available, however it fails when I try to install it.

Will try again later and post whether or not I can bottle dupe Gibdo Mask.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Tailsko on February 26, 2015, 10:23:37 PM
I gotten Gibdo's Mask and Garo's Mask to display while Link is emptying Hot Spring Water, but no duplicate bottle. I'll keep trying.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Lilysol on February 26, 2015, 10:44:45 PM
I gotten Gibdo's Mask and Garo's Mask to display while Link is emptying Hot Spring Water, but no duplicate bottle. I'll keep trying.

Does ESS still work?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on February 27, 2015, 05:26:55 AM
Putting on Goron Mask while standing under water using RI seems to softlock the game.
Put on Deku Mask and you'll instantly pop up to the surface (even if there's a ceiling above you, you'll clip right thru it).
When standing under water and pressing A to surface, you can take out the pictograph directly after, allowing you to take pictures and stuff while at the surface, etc.

I've messed around with the deku clip in STT but can't find anything useful (though you can get into many unloaded rooms). Someone with more knowledge may find some useful OoB there, maybe.
I didn't bother checking in GBT since we can basically skip the entire thing.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Segfault on February 27, 2015, 07:08:29 AM
Does ESS still work?
I've never been good at ESS, but I can't get it working at all now.

BA does not work (at least not as it used to), but the glitched bottles are still left on save files and works fine to trigger WW.

RI via pictograph works great.

Running the EU version
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Seb9kplus on February 27, 2015, 08:54:54 AM
I can also confirm that bottle duping masks has been patched, eu version. :( sadness.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Tailsko on February 27, 2015, 09:08:12 AM
Time Stop still works in v1.1, still can get to 22 hearts 3/4 heart containers.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Seb9kplus on February 27, 2015, 09:20:10 AM
Time Stop still works in v1.1, still can get to 22 hearts 3/4 heart containers.
Question: What happens when you get more than 20? And why is the limit at 22.75? I remember in OoT3D it was possible to get way more, and they were shown as weird blinking dots in the top left corner.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Tailsko on February 27, 2015, 09:41:16 AM
Question: What happens when you get more than 20? And why is the limit at 22.75? I remember in OoT3D it was possible to get way more, and they were shown as weird blinking dots in the top left corner.
Getting 23 hearts crashes. Getting damage below a heart crashes the game if you have 21 or 22 hearts. I don't see where the other two hearts are located.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: thestickystickman on February 27, 2015, 10:03:44 AM
Curiosity shop and collection delay still work, so bottle adventure is possible and easy, just not as stupidly readily available.

 Catching HSW still causes weirdness.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 27, 2015, 10:34:21 AM
Inefficient patch. :P

If we are able to move with the trading screen without 5th Day shenanigans, it's possible to escape as Deku. Get movement with the trading screen, skip the first text box, get the mailbox within view when you're at a guard, and select an item using the touch screen instead of A. The guard will be frozen in place.

Edit: The camera has to face where the mailbox is, but at the same time it has to be out of view before an item is completely out or a crash will result.

Alternatively you can just slide through them with trading item animation with enough momentum to load before a crash can happen.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Amateseru on February 27, 2015, 11:05:01 AM
So what are we supposed to do ? I don't want to download that shit x)

Edit they didn't even asked me if I wanted to update my game.... seriously fuck you Nintendo -_- true faggots for the first time in history
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on February 27, 2015, 01:08:25 PM
I guess if it doesn't ask you to update "forced" or something, you can delete the update data it seems http://i.imgur.com/dvJVy5p.jpg i guess just in case anybody wanna try it out
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on February 27, 2015, 01:28:17 PM
So how will the speedruns be? Would v1.0 still be considered since the update isn't forced?

I beleive this should be treated like JP Version vs US Version... aka the fastest version wins for speedruns.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Lilysol on February 27, 2015, 02:02:14 PM
So how will the speedruns be? Would v1.0 still be considered since the update isn't forced?

I beleive this should be treated like JP Version vs US Version... aka the fastest version wins for speedruns.
Correct. We just use 1.0 from here on out, unless another glitch is discovered in 1.1
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Amateseru on February 27, 2015, 02:47:28 PM
Oh thanks a lot Gaby
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Tailsko on February 27, 2015, 03:37:16 PM
Would segmented runs be accepted still?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on February 27, 2015, 07:43:13 PM
I wanted to ask about this RI with the flower, I can get it to work normally (having pictobox) but it seems it affects the buttons being dim or not when flying the deku flowers? cuz i wanted to RI bombs in Cycle 1 but bombs and even the nuts are dim when I use the deku flowers, flying in air..lol ??
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on February 27, 2015, 08:13:05 PM
I beleive you cannot RI when in action where B is other than the normal land B... so it only works on land as far as I know. Same thing happened when I had the idea to RI deku mask while being under the water gap with Zora mask (in neutral, upwards swimming action) at pirate fortress water gap. I had an AMAZING glitch idea and thought you might use the deku RI under water to clip threw and pop up on the stairs and therefore skip 1st half PF without bomb long jumps. But it didn't work...  :(

EDIT: GUYS I Need some help: I have an AMAZING idea to skip Pirate Fortress first gap no bombs, no long jump:

In Pirate Fortress: Under the stairs of the gap we usually skip with bomb jumps, do the RI with deku mask in the water as zora ON THE SEA FLOOR... use an empty bottle as usable item AND deku mask as unusable item... YOU CAN USE PICTOBOX ON THE SEA FLOOR.

It will work, I just suck at it and it's frame perfect.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BALDORF! on February 27, 2015, 08:17:45 PM
Hey, people said you can't use first Gibdo for Music box house....so here is a vid of me doing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv4shJ2bV6Y
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Lilysol on February 27, 2015, 09:16:48 PM
I beleive you cannot RI when in action where B is other than the normal land B... so it only works on land as far as I know. Same thing happened when I had the idea to RI deku mask while being under the water gap with Zora mask (in neutral, upwards swimming action) at pirate fortress water gap. I had an AMAZING glitch idea and thought you might use the deku RI under water to clip threw and pop up on the stairs and therefore skip 1st half PF without bomb long jumps. But it didn't work...  :(

EDIT: GUYS I Need some help: I have an AMAZING idea to skip Pirate Fortress first gap no bombs, no long jump:

In Pirate Fortress: Under the stairs of the gap we usually skip with bomb jumps, do the RI with deku mask in the water as zora ON THE SEA FLOOR... use an empty bottle as usable item AND deku mask as unusable item... YOU CAN USE PICTOBOX ON THE SEA FLOOR.

It will work, I just suck at it and it's frame perfect.

Biggest problem is it means you need Pictobox, which requires rescuing the old lady. Bomb jump saves time.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on February 27, 2015, 09:43:29 PM
Biggest problem is it means you need Pictobox, which requires rescuing the old lady. Bomb jump saves time.
No, the biggest problem is that it doesn't work anyways. Going Deku under stairs will rocket you to the surface, but he doesn't bounce high enough to get back in bounds, so you'll just void
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on February 27, 2015, 09:45:25 PM
Masterluigisw you can RI with deku flower, what im saying is idk why it doesn't work in cycle 1, even after you're normal link without pictobox you can do RI with flower, that's what im confused about :P
Edit: Nevermind, you need to have magic to do deku flower RI, didn't have magic beforehand so that was it lol
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 28, 2015, 02:31:51 AM
Yeah, I mentioned magic on the first page but didn't when I bring up nuts lol sorry. Exploding Sakon makes All-Night Mask available on cycle 1 but it can never be bought.

If you take Ocarina out the moment the bomb begins to explode near Sakon, soaring out will give you a circular fadeout after loading. Song of Double Time will result in a softlock (if not going to 6am), except time will still pass and you'll resume control after a day transition.

1st Day's weather on 2nd Day (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTDxTI4cMBVPjB) in the swamp. Go to any loading point that changes the mini-map, and before the mini-map change completes the transition, play Song of Double Time. It doesn't work in areas with day transition of course. Doesn't work in original.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Amateseru on February 28, 2015, 04:38:58 AM
I tried italian version, it seems to be slightly faster for some text (it's very minor because most of the box can be skipped in one frame, it justs affects a few textes here and there)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on February 28, 2015, 07:42:53 AM
No, the biggest problem is that it doesn't work anyways. Going Deku under stairs will rocket you to the surface, but he doesn't bounce high enough to get back in bounds, so you'll just void

I got my hopes up but you are probably right, unless there's water behind the wall higher than we think lol. (I tried it and it doesn't work) meh!
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: teasday on February 28, 2015, 11:05:17 AM
So, not being a fan of the Skull Kid CS skip I looked for a more consistent setup.

(http://i.imgur.com/GL4v9sC.jpg)
1. Target this pillar and inch left until you can see its edge between Link's legs.
2. Sidehop left 3 times. During the third hop, press the ocarina button and Link should pull it out immediately upon landing. I think it fails if you do it too soon though.
3. Play SoDT.

It's probably slightly slower than the current method but I dunno, for me it's a lot more consistent at least. The position is kind of precise to get but it doesn't seem to be super picky about it.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Finalinsanity on February 28, 2015, 01:05:48 PM
Hi, I looked around to see if anyone's reported this but it doesn't look like it so I figured I would put it here (if I missed this then I apologize). Not sure if it's viable for the any% route but I feel like it might be worth posting anyways (could have an application in other categories, maybe?); the short version of it is that you can get a really strong "sword" on Deku's B button (i was able to get a similar effect on Zora's punches, but haven't been able to replicate it yet).

- Get mask storage with Deku and climb onto Epona
- after transforming, remove the mask from your items to turn human, and climb off Epona
- Human link now has Deku Nuts on his B button. When you transform into Deku, you have an invisible, fully functional (sans crouchstab) sword on B. If you have never picked up Deku Nuts, it will even persist through flying; if you have picked up Deku Nuts, it will be overwritten (presumably because it sets your B button to nuts during flight)

You can get back your sword on Human by repeating the process, and it does not get rid of the sword on Deku.

The thing that might make it worthwhile is that it seems to have the same strength as the GFS (it one-shots Dinolfos). It does not persist through saving, however (which zora punches did, but again, can't figure out how exactly I managed that one).

My knowledge of MM3D speedrunning is pretty small, but I hope this information is useful.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on February 28, 2015, 02:04:46 PM
You got "GFS" on Zora using Epona somehow? That's cool, you can also get it from smithy/Curiosity Shop using collection delay to collect the sword as Zora. Similar to the N64, you'll need the Kokiri Sword on human if you want to undo Zora's sword effect. So Zora cannot have the sword effect unless you have the Razor/Gilded Sword, but Deku can with the Kokiri Sword. It's cool that there's no longer a softlock with Deku sword if you strike something that gives recoil, such as torches.

Edit: To get Zora sword via Epona is to load to another area while on Epona as Zora, then become human before dismounting. Again, human Link needs Razor/Gilded Sword.

Edit2: If Goron Link is tried, it will change human Link's B to Kokiri Sword and the effect can be saved. Dismounting as Zora is one way to fix the Gilded Sword or whatever your sword in the gear menu is.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: thestickystickman on February 28, 2015, 04:37:10 PM
By using the Epona as any forms glitch, you can get past loading zones. Just press A at some point while "on" her as a different form, and the camera will freak out and you'll pass through non-map objects. I don't think you can dismount though.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on February 28, 2015, 07:36:01 PM
Welp apparently we still need a way to clip into the milk bar... evrybody, please find a way to do this!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLE84eO9oKs

^NOT my video
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: corneliab on February 28, 2015, 11:40:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLE84eO9oKs

^NOT my video

Does anyone here know how to get Epona into Clock Town in his version? I'm not finding anything about this online.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on February 28, 2015, 11:51:31 PM
For those not familiar with the Epona Clip glitch:

This exact same glitch was present in OoT3D.
Basically when you enter an area on epona, you always dismount on the right side the first time, so you can just ride up against a corner and dismount into it.

I "re-confirmed" a few days ago in IRC that it worked in MM3D (though, I don't think that had anything to do with the clip being found, don't think anyone was even listening at the time), but didn't think that there'd be any use for it. (I was also 100% confident that you wouldn't reach the loading zone in the milk bar, so I'm dumb).
Don't think anyone has mentioned in detail what you have to do to enter clock town on epona. All I know is that GnS (I think it was GnS?) did it like a week ago.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Serris on March 01, 2015, 12:05:07 AM
Hey, just wondering if it could be faster to do Snowhead after Bow and come back for Odolwa? You'd have Fire Arrows for Gekko and the torch and avoid the cutscene in the Deku Princess room.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on March 01, 2015, 01:03:55 AM
Quoting myself from the IRC:
Quote
<CloudMax> oh right, Forgot to mention, I did mess with hookshot clipping yesterday. It does work. but you must stand like as far as you possibly can inside a corner, and shoot almost straight down to the left for it to work. However, I ONCE managed to shoot it at another direction. it was more like 45 degrees down, and I shot straight toward the corner, rather than to the left.
The second part being the interesting one. I am 100% sure it went that direction. I just moved the aim around while spamming hookshot and all of a sudden it actually worked. I guess I was just standing *very* far into the corner while doing it. Can't remember under what conditions I got it to work exactly. (like if I strafed into the corner oot3d style, etc.)
I did it in the corner to the left of the town exit by the milk bar.

Edit: managed to do it again, kind of. I strafed into the corner. I can now shoot from a ~45 degree angle instead of straight down, but I must still aim almost all the way to the left, unlike last time when it worked by aiming forward.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 01, 2015, 01:07:16 AM
I did the getting nuts on B with epona,  so that i can dupe over them and get bottle on B (which worked) ocarina wasn't functioning (aka didn't have it) because termina was in "1st cycle mode" no music, enemies only grass lol and something interesting is that at one time Tatl called me and she also had 1st cycle text saying "Oh look at the time isn't even 3 days' anymore or "aren't you suppose to see the great fairy" etc etc
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on March 01, 2015, 01:12:09 AM
I did the getting nuts on B with epona,  so that i can dupe over them and get bottle on B (which worked) ocarina wasn't functioning (aka didn't have it) because termina was in "1st cycle mode" no music, enemies only grass lol and something interesting is that at one time Tatl called me and she also had 1st cycle text saying "Oh look at the time isn't even 3 days' anymore or "aren't you suppose to see the great fairy" etc etc
You can get Bottle on B as Link using another method as well. the effects are known, and GIM does the same thing when receiving 20r (or 50r, can't remember)

Edit:
You can skip all deeds using Down A. Since you can walk int othe scrubs and burrow with them standing there.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 01, 2015, 01:49:30 AM
You can get Bottle on B as Link using another method as well. the effects are known, and GIM does the same thing when receiving 20r (or 50r, can't remember)

Edit:
You can skip all deeds using Down A. Since you can walk int othe scrubs and burrow with them standing there.

Oh dang, yeah hahah, i heard there was a method to bottle B, but i don't which one that is never seen a vid or anything about it. Could you tell me how to do it? :p =)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on March 01, 2015, 02:34:43 AM
You can do collection delay on the mailbox when receiving rewards for having postman hat on if you interact with it with Down A. so you can run around and do stuff until you look at it again.
This is just an assumption, but you may be able to do collection delay on most stuff received from interacting with Down A activated?

Oh dang, yeah hahah, i heard there was a method to bottle B, but i don't which one that is never seen a vid or anything about it. Could you tell me how to do it? :p =)

Yeah, I haven't gotten around to recording anything that I've found yet, so you wouldn't find any videos of some stuff.

Start of by getting bottle on B as Goron.
To get Bottle on B as goron you dupe over the ocarina in curiosity shop. (Do collection delay, take out ocarina, put it away). Instead of overwriting the ocarina, it will overwrite Goron Links B item.
Now go to Honey & Darling and use Goron Transformation Storage.
As soon as the minigame starts, put the mask back in your inventory, this will transform you back to Link.
End the minigame.

You will now have Bottle on B as Link.



Edit:
Quote
<CloudMax> uh.. I was showing collection delay to my kid brother.. I think I found a glitch while doing it by mistake
<CloudMax> unless it's already known
<CloudMax> I hooked onto a chest right before a day night transition. I did a hookshot jump
<CloudMax> not sure how high, since I looked away
<CloudMax> but when I looked back at the screen, link was falling
<CloudMax> yeah, you clearly do a hookshot jump, but it is not high at all. it is super bad. maybe it's possible to get much higher with better timing?
It was the transition to night in south clock town. I guess all transitions where you just get like an overview camera works.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 01, 2015, 04:54:24 AM
For those not familiar with the Epona Clip glitch:

This exact same glitch was present in OoT3D.
Basically when you enter an area on epona, you always dismount on the right side the first time, so you can just ride up against a corner and dismount into it.
GnS's Epona teleport (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAR0f3R2gqw) also works and I managed it from the west entrance. You can get the climb command while being as close to the loading zone as possible, and mount on the moment it's 6am. The only risk is Epona neighing at the wrong time. I'm not sure if parking her ahead of time with this has a use since I know a transition is needed for the WW.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on March 01, 2015, 05:04:10 AM
When in south clock town, you can see that a door actor is floating in the air out of bounds in east clock town: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6440063/mm3d/south%20clocktown%20oob%20door.jpg
Was that there on nintendo 64? Or did grezzo decide to place it there?
It is rotated just like the shooting gallery door, so at some point they may have concidered using actual door actors for the stuff you can't reach, but decided not to.

Edit: It seems like MM64 had a real door actor for the shooting gallery. this door is probably it, and they just left it there. in MM3D the gallery door is part of the model.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 01, 2015, 05:13:58 AM
It's not there on N64.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: thestickystickman on March 01, 2015, 05:15:43 AM
When in south clock town, you can see that a door actor is floating in the air out of bounds in east clock town: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6440063/mm3d/south%20clocktown%20oob%20door.jpg
Was that there on nintendo 64? Or did grezzo decide to place it there?
It is rotated just like the shooting gallery door, so at some point they may have concidered using actual door actors for the stuff you can't reach, but decided not to.

I think that's just the Shooting Gallery door, you just can't see the wall.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 01, 2015, 05:27:09 AM
No, the gallery door is under the octo.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: corneliab on March 01, 2015, 06:44:49 AM
GnS's Epona teleport (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAR0f3R2gqw) also works and I managed it from the west entrance. You can get the climb command while being as close to the loading zone as possible, and mount on the moment it's 6am. The only risk is Epona neighing at the wrong time. I'm not sure if parking her ahead of time with this has a use since I know a transition is needed for the WW.

Was not expecting it to be that simple. Awesome.

As for the clip itself, what was that guy in the video doing to totally flip himself around for that jump slash?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 01, 2015, 09:12:03 AM
Hey, just wondering if it could be faster to do Snowhead after Bow and come back for Odolwa? You'd have Fire Arrows for Gekko and the torch and avoid the cutscene in the Deku Princess room.

Yes it should be faster. That's how MM 64 used to so it's route back in the days of Jiano.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 01, 2015, 09:58:22 AM
Was not expecting it to be that simple. Awesome.

As for the clip itself, what was that guy in the video doing to totally flip himself around for that jump slash?
Not sure, but holding target while getting off of Epona will  turn Link so he's facing parallel to her, while not targeting will have him face into her. So we're halfway there, we just need to turn him an extra 90 degrees. I've tried holding the circle pad in various directions with no luck.

Anybody trying this, do it off the ledge near the owl statue. It's an easy reset, and you run no risk of voiding upon failure, which makes Epona disappear.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 01, 2015, 01:07:10 PM
The reason why is there is because when they expanded south clock town, remember in MM64 the door was there because the shooting gallery was much closer, and they just forgot to remove the door for some reason (Grezzo, Kappa)
If you go back to look at the n64 version is much closer like that and makes sense, to me at least x))

And thanks for replying CloudMax to how to get Bottle on B via collection delay :p =)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 01, 2015, 01:40:50 PM
Any% route First Cycle:

Night of Final Day
Gong 6:30 to 9:00 for 30r
Stray fairy ECT
Break both Rupee boxes
Keaton grass Rupees NCT
Magic
Keaton grass Rupees again
Deposit 50r SCT
Ocarina

The clock strikes 12am in about 15 seconds faster with gong Rupees than Anju. The gong generates a blue Rupee every half hour. You can collect an extra green Rupee from the Trading Post pot as a precaution, but you won't make it to school before 6:30 if you're not quick.

It's not faster unless it's possible to collect the other 50 Rupees for milk without much interruption. The musical board on the way to Mountain Village, while may not be reliable, gives 30 Rupees between 8 and 9pm and what you get is based on hour. Description with the full list here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMA1-ORLf9U). Lens of Truth cave 50r chest?

Edit: Milk isn't needed with the new WW...
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: teasday on March 01, 2015, 11:48:08 PM
Another Skull Kid CS skip setup, this time with no jumping.

(http://i.imgur.com/5oX8u6m.jpg)
1. Target the left pillar and make sure you're as close to it as possible. Move right until Link's body is at least halfway past the pillar: when you dry roll, Link should roll forward and be pushed to the right.
2. Do 10 dry rolls. Doesn't seem to matter how fast you do them.
3. Stop holding L. Hold the Ocarina, swing the sword once and let go of the Ocarina button during the swing.
4. SoDT.

There's an annoying catch, though: the timing of when you start playing the Ocarina matters. If you're too slow, the cutscene plays. If you're too early, Link misses the trigger zone just barely. I'm guessing it's about a 1-2 frame window, but I could learn to pretty much tell from Link's animation if I got it too early, so I don't think it's as bad as it sounds.

The good news is that the position for the setup isn't precise at all thanks to the pillar pushing you to the correct spot. I'm pretty sure it should work as long as the pillar pushes you even a little, but taking even a little step forward or backward will probably screw it up. Thankfully that should be pretty easy to notice but watch out for that.

A bad video just to show it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vVN9fvz2us
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BALDORF! on March 01, 2015, 11:52:38 PM
Was not expecting it to be that simple. Awesome.

As for the clip itself, what was that guy in the video doing to totally flip himself around for that jump slash?

I'm not sure how he turns around, but you can also use jump slash recoil without turning with good positioning and timing, sometimes you clip back in bounds though. Another thing you can do is use mask storage to use Zora on epona since he has a bigger hitbox it's easier to hit the loading zone when you recoil. Don't use Zora for that if you do the Deku sword glitch though, after the warp it turns into a title deed.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on March 02, 2015, 12:16:43 AM
To get the angle, you need to target while on epona facing the direct you want to jumpslash in and hold that target. In this case, the camera you have when you walk into the area should work.

Venick came up with a super good position for skull kid CS skip. Unfortunately, it uses a texture on the ground as a visual, but it's pretty lenient. I can couch that it has very good consistency. Video to come
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: corneliab on March 02, 2015, 02:38:43 AM
To get the angle, you need to target while on epona facing the direct you want to jumpslash in and hold that target. In this case, the camera you have when you walk into the area should work.

Excellent, that worked like a charm. Got to see the wrong warp myself: sure enough, I got safely dropped into the center of STT's main room. So neat to see it all come together. Looking forward to using this in a new file.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 02, 2015, 03:52:14 PM
Two questions:
1) If you need a day transition to get Epona into Clock Town, AND need a day transition to WW, AMD Epona disappears from Clock Town when you leave the area, how are you supposed to clip inside of the Milk Bar AND get the WW?

2)How exactly do you get the WW to work? In my countless attempts(using Romani's Mask to get in just for practice), I would either stay in the Milk Bar after the day transition, actually get the WW(has only happened to me ONCE), get kicked out at 5am, or have the moon crash normally. I am failing to see what I am doing differently to cause these effects.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: corneliab on March 02, 2015, 04:45:59 PM
Two questions:
1) If you need a day transition to get Epona into Clock Town, AND need a day transition to WW, AMD Epona disappears from Clock Town when you leave the area, how are you supposed to clip inside of the Milk Bar AND get the WW?

2)How exactly do you get the WW to work. In my countless attempts(using Romani's Mask to get in just for practice), I would either stay in the Milk Bar after the day transition, actually get the WW(has only happened to me ONCE), or get kicked out at 5am. I am failing to see what I am doing differently to cause these effects.

You can't do both in one cycle (if you're using epona teleport anyways, which is all I know). During one cycle you merely get Epona up onto the ledge leading into Clock Town and leave her there (effectively parking her across cycles since her position in Termina Field is retained even if you play the SoT). When you go back in time, you now won't need to spend a day transition to bring her into town.

As for your second question, I'm a little unclear on what you're asking. Are you wondering what will ensure that the fourth day will cause a wrong warp when the day transition hits? It does seem finicky, but I think a setup or two have been mentioned here. I seem to have the most luck when I manage to trigger the rapid time progression (the kind that doesn't crash the moon in the HSW grotto), run to the exit, and play the inverted SoT right before leaving. As for getting kicked out of the bar, the whole point of the clip is to get in after the bar closes at 5am (but before 6am) so you won't be kicked out and will remain in the bar for the day transition. Again, I might be misunderstanding you.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 02, 2015, 05:03:47 PM
You can't do both in one cycle (if you're using epona teleport anyways, which is all I know). During one cycle you merely get Epona up onto the ledge leading into Clock Town and leave her there (effectively parking her across cycles since her position in Termina Field is retained even if you play the SoT). When you go back in time, you now won't need to spend a day transition to bring her into town.
You don't need 1st Day for 4th Day, so you don't have to restart the cycle after parking her.

Edit: Pastebin for WW setup here (http://pastebin.com/qBGY779m). It's explaining Gyorg WW, but do 10 of the steps then clip into Milk Bar and wait for the transition. Why the WW didn't happen for you with the transition was because you were in regular 4th Day (working like it does on N64) that doesn't give it. You have to time when to catch HSW, which is around the 2:10 minute mark and you start timing with a stopwatch the moment you open the game from the home menu. I don't know if the 2:10 minute mark has been changed by now or not.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: corneliab on March 02, 2015, 05:06:55 PM
You don't need 1st Day for 4th Day, so you don't have to restart the cycle after parking her.

Honestly, I'm not even sure why I specified as such. Brain lapse lol
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 02, 2015, 05:25:36 PM
Some of us could really use a video for the Epona clip into town. I'll admit I can't even do it which had me resort to trying Epona teleport in the first place. I'm not acquainted with OoT3D.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: corneliab on March 02, 2015, 05:39:16 PM
Some of us could really use a video for the Epona clip into town. I'll admit I can't even do it which had me resort to trying Epona teleport in the first place. I'm not acquainted with OoT3D.

What's this? Something separate from the milk bar clip? An alternative to epona warping?

I haven't seen any mention in this thread of being able to get Epona into town with another method.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 02, 2015, 06:09:07 PM
Oh, I misread the post. I don't know if there's another method or not.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 02, 2015, 06:16:59 PM
You don't need 1st Day for 4th Day, so you don't have to restart the cycle after parking her.

Edit: Pastebin for WW setup here (http://[url=http://pastebin.com/qBGY779m). It's explaining Gyorg WW, but do 10 of the steps then clip into Milk Bar and wait for the transition. Why the WW didn't happen for you with the transition was because you were in regular 4th Day (working like it does on N64) that doesn't give it. You have to time when to catch HSW, which is around the 2:10 minute mark and you start timing with a stopwatch the moment you open the game from the home menu. I don't know if the 2:10 minute mark has been changed by now or not.
That link doesn't take me anywhere, it just gives me a blank page.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 02, 2015, 06:31:22 PM
Fixed the link.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 02, 2015, 07:12:42 PM
Someone has a good setup for snowhead temple BK skip? The clip is soo hard it's ridiculous.  ::)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 02, 2015, 07:41:27 PM
Okay, I think I figured out what I was doing wrong. I forgot to catch spring water in Gibdo bottle a second time to make time go crazy. So now I'm just curious about where in the route we are going to get Epona. I'm guessing something along the lines of:

Leave Woodfall after Bow
Snowhead
Powder Keg
Gyorg Warp
SoT
Finish Woodfall(collect rupees)
Buy Powder Keg
Epona
Park Epona
SoS to MV
4th Day
Milk Bar Clip
STT
Majora

That's just a rough guess on how the current route may go. It may be different than this depending on how much time of day is affected by skipping the well, Mirror Shield, and Ikana Castle. But I think this is at least a good starting point to build off of.

Someone has a good setup for snowhead temple BK skip? The clip is soo hard it's ridiculous.  ::)
I like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7uGFNvgYGU

Basically backflip into the corner, then line up the middle of the clock with the middle of the white texture in front of you.
http://imgur.com/9ssb9KS
Backflip again.
Target, and FULLY press right on the Circle Pad until Link does a full lean, then IMMEDIATELY let go.
Do that again.
Now tap up-left extremely briefly twice, then Triple Slash.
Wait until Link is shoved all the way back by the third slash, then clip.
Sidehop in.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 02, 2015, 08:41:17 PM
Okay, I think I figured out what I was doing wrong. I forgot to catch spring water in Gibdo bottle a second time to make time go crazy. So now I'm just curious about where in the route we are going to get Epona. I'm guessing something along the lines of:

Leave Woodfall after Bow
Snowhead
Powder Keg
Gyorg Warp
SoT
Finish Woodfall(collect rupees)
Buy Powder Keg
Epona
Park Epona
SoS to MV
4th Day
Milk Bar Clip
STT
Majora

That's just a rough guess on how the current route may go. It may be different than this depending on how much time of day is affected by skipping the well, Mirror Shield, and Ikana Castle. But I think this is at least a good starting point to build off of.
I like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7uGFNvgYGU

Basically backflip into the corner, then line up the middle of the clock with the middle of the white texture in front of you.
http://imgur.com/9ssb9KS
Backflip again.
Target, and FULLY press right on the Circle Pad until Link does a full lean, then IMMEDIATELY let go.
Do that again.
Now tap up-left extremely briefly twice, then Triple Slash.
Wait until Link is shoved all the way back by the third slash, then clip.
Sidehop in.

Awesome worked after 3 tries. :) (I was pressing A too fast) Pretty consistent. Thanks!
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on March 03, 2015, 08:09:23 AM
For those struggling with stone tower warp and snowhead bk skip:

http://youtu.be/BV5t8CJNjhU
http://youtu.be/uB0_8oJtm_k
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BALDORF! on March 03, 2015, 08:32:24 PM
I already posted a Gibdo clip vod, but I've seen people doing it kinda slow...so, here's some examples of it for reference.

It's easier than it appears.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on March 04, 2015, 05:19:49 AM
The Remains during the Majora fight apparently do 16 damage to Majora's Wrath if they hit her with their light balls. GG Grezzo. (This is 2 the damage of a GFS jumpslash)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: daniel_figgyy on March 04, 2015, 06:46:49 PM
Not sure if this was mentioned anywhere but:

Just realized that if you have the Gilded Sword when doing the Deku Sword glitch, deku link will get the damage of the Gilded Sword, as expected. However, when you use zora storage to give the b button back to Link, it defaults to kokiri sword damage.
So Deku link keeps the gilded damage, while human Link reverts back to kokiri damage.

This info won't be of much use to the current any% route because the razor/gilded sword is not obtained. Just thought it was an interesting find.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 04, 2015, 07:42:19 PM
Something interesting i think is new maybe? When you Down A being swordless, it let's you use items still which i think is something neat hahahh
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 04, 2015, 09:33:29 PM
So you can get Collection Delay while on Down A (swordless) happened with laundry pool bremen mask went into the water and all and after touching land got the mask xDD
https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTE7aaYWutL4dT
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on March 04, 2015, 11:58:18 PM
So you can get Collection Delay while on Down A (swordless) happened with laundry pool bremen mask went into the water and all and after touching land got the mask xDD
https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTE7aaYWutL4dT

are you sure you even need swordless? I did mess a lot with collection delay on mailbox using down a a while back. I don't recall having swordless. I am pretty sure I had a sword in fact. maybe it's different depending on what you collect, idk.

Also,  restricted items with down a was the first use that was found for it. does not require swordless, just a dimmed B button. (so works in areas with disabled B, even if you have a sword, and as other forms)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 05, 2015, 03:11:05 AM
are you sure you even need swordless? I did mess a lot with collection delay on mailbox using down a a while back. I don't recall having swordless. I am pretty sure I had a sword in fact. maybe it's different depending on what you collect, idk.

Also,  restricted items with down a was the first use that was found for it. does not require swordless, just a dimmed B button. (so works in areas with disabled B, even if you have a sword, and as other forms)

Ohh, i see, i was swordless atm with Link so maybe that acted like having B dimmed and about the mask, i had Down A activated which made the collection delay until i other jumped to get out of Down A or hit Kafei's bell to trigger the little CS (which is what you see in the pic :p) as for with other forms items were dimmed doing Down A even though Link was swordless, so i guess dimmed b and swordless act the same hahahh
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Question
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 05, 2015, 07:38:37 AM
The Remains during the Majora fight apparently do 16 damage to Majora's Wrath if they hit her with their light balls. GG Grezzo. (This is 2 the damage of a GFS jumpslash)
So the fight can basically end with 3 light balls? This should be tested.
EDIT: Wow man. New wr with an accidental discovery. SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE ON THE CASE. (I think the remains do more than 6 from the looks of it. Can't link the vid atm)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on March 05, 2015, 09:40:35 AM
I said six hits in the video because you need to do ten hits with great fairy sword (104=40) and I thought at the time that I had hit her 4 times. When I said six, I meant that I thought that they must've done at least the equivalent of 6 hits of 4 damage each.

However, upon testing, sva said that he believed that they did 16 damage each.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 05, 2015, 03:02:55 PM
so the balls do 16 damage? that means if 3 of them hit majora, he gets stunned, and you hit him with a sword, that will kill him, right? does he take damage from them when he's stunned? i think the last question is pretty important for strats on this boss should the remains end up being useful
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 06, 2015, 01:23:14 PM
so the balls do 16 damage? that means if 3 of them hit majora, he gets stunned, and you hit him with a sword, that will kill him, right? does he take damage from them when he's stunned? i think the last question is pretty important for strats on this boss should the remains end up being useful

Pretty sure ben's 2:09 run shows what happens... indeed it looks like the Remains damage him while he's stunned. So Warth is now pure RNG based if you go for the Remains balls strat for a fast kill... but I'm pretty sure timing deku sword slash's will kill him pretty fast... this might save like 10 seconds at best.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 06, 2015, 02:55:21 PM
Pretty sure ben's 2:09 run shows what happens... indeed it looks like the Remains damage him while he's stunned. So Warth is now pure RNG based if you go for the Remains balls strat for a fast kill... but I'm pretty sure timing deku sword slash's will kill him pretty fast... this might save like 10 seconds at best.
ok then so iirc, one hit from a deku sword= 4 damage. so one hit from a light ball would shave off having to hit majora 4 times. the strat i theorize is to stun majora once, have the remains shoot majora at least once, then stunlock him with deku sword to finish him off. it's not completely optimized, but its a start.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Xeno on March 07, 2015, 11:52:21 AM
Any advise for milk bar clip? I watched Bens tutorial, and it helped me to get easily oob but either I jumpslash on the stairs or if I wait a bit the camera turns to the door but I don't have enough high to enter the milkbar.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 07, 2015, 05:23:16 PM
Goron drown warps you to your last entrance in the original, and it can still be done in MM3D (except the area doesn't reload). When you're at an edge, go down to drown by doing quick flicks with the circle pad as your only movement, and be quick to let go when you drown. If done right, you'll be at your last entrance after two drowns. If your last entrance came from an owl warp, the area will reload and you'll be human. When I tried this in the Termina Field grotto from the Great Bay entrance, I respawned out of bounds.

Edit: This can be of use for the Zora moon dungeon in 100%.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Xeno on March 08, 2015, 06:16:01 AM
Got it now, I just had to go forward with the circlepad. Onemore qquestion: how can I backflip on this platform in the mirror room?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on March 08, 2015, 08:13:30 AM
Onemore qquestion: how can I backflip on this platform in the mirror room?

If you're referring to the block goron can punch away, you need a Zora gainer to get up there.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 08, 2015, 10:18:22 AM
You can get bottle on B as Zora and Goron via weird B from Epona (being swordless as human) http://youtu.be/7mroRx7yJ6k
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Xeno on March 08, 2015, 01:11:30 PM
If you're referring to the block goron can punch away, you need a Zora gainer to get up there.

Thanks, it was a bit tricky first but i got it constantly now.

Now my hopefully last question before I can speedrun mm3d:
How exactly works the early Stonetower BK? As soon as I press b, I press b and go right.
Video: http://youtu.be/evPdKlqb4uc

Nvm I don't know why but it works now.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 08, 2015, 01:24:23 PM
Hold the circle pad towards the door so that you land on an invisible collision.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 08, 2015, 04:09:27 PM
It's known that FD crashes if trying to open a door, and it also happens with a big chest. Offering to help Toto will have him say Dampe's "...In that case, show me another spot" and the bottle chest in the graveyard was the big chest I tried so he foreshadowed a crash lol. Toto uses a piece of Mountain Village dialogue in the original.

Grezzo lol (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTF93dIt9l_nWE).
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 08, 2015, 08:45:56 PM
You can action swap out of tatl...this game...lolol
http://youtu.be/7UDZBWLhqyM
Not sure if this possible in MM, which it should be

Edit: you can set an alarm and also do this meaning fire arrow skip? http://youtu.be/-glMAghgm5M
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gymnast86 on March 08, 2015, 10:29:23 PM
Thanks to gaby we can now skip goron lullaby and 99% of snowhead, we can also action-swap anywhere with the tatl alarm which can be set to any time of any day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnQlDe7BZeg. Although I think that using the post office is better for the wrong warp because it puts you in a better spot.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 09, 2015, 03:47:16 AM
Okay, what is that action swap thing you're doing and how do you do it?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 09, 2015, 04:04:52 AM
I haven't looked into the action swap stuff to know, and I completely missed the Tatl alarm feature lol.

Edit: GnS got it to work in original. :)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 09, 2015, 08:09:20 AM
You can action swap out of tatl...this game...lolol
http://youtu.be/7UDZBWLhqyM
Not sure if this possible in MM, which it should be

Edit: you can set an alarm and also do this meaning fire arrow skip? http://youtu.be/-glMAghgm5M

Wow amazing... I knew it would work on MM3D too... but nice who thought about the Talt alarm ;D

MM3D is getting faster than MM64... keep it going guys.



Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 09, 2015, 10:10:28 AM
The only reason i thought of Tatl Alarm, is because at one moment Tatl wanted to talk to me, i forgot is set that alarm to that specific time and then i was like.. *_* xDD
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 09, 2015, 11:43:39 AM
Hm, so WW isn't exclusive to a special variant of the 'Dawn of A New Day' transition. Simply catch HSW when the timer is at 4:25, inverted, then exit. The transition will be a white 'Dawn of the Second Day' no matter what day the banner says when you inverted, even if you were fast enough to not see the banner. Only difference is you're not on 4th Day prior to the transition, so some sidequests are available.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 09, 2015, 12:09:30 PM
Hm, so WW isn't exclusive to a special variant of the 'Dawn of A New Day' transition. Simply catch HSW when the timer is at 4:25, inverted, then exit. The transition will be a white 'Dawn of the Second Day' no matter what day the banner says when you inverted, even if you were fast enough to not see the banner. Only difference is you're not on 4th Day prior to the transition, so some sidequests are available.

The reasons its "New Day" because we basically do 2 WW's to reach Gyorg. (Twin island winter->Twin island spring->Gyorg)

I also get "second day" otherwise when on 0th day.

Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 09, 2015, 12:31:27 PM
That's not how it works.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 09, 2015, 01:48:05 PM
I'm not sure if this has any use, but I found a way to glitch the Bomber's Notebook.

Whenever a Bomber wants to tell you a rumor, push him all the way to a loading zone. Get in between the loading zone and the Bomber and be as close as possible to the loading zone. Talk to the Bomber and Link will take a step back into the loading zone but the text will continue. Go through the text up until the point where he starts telling you the rumor. If you mash through it too quickly, the notebook will log it like normal.

There are 2 things that may happen. One, no rumor will get logged into the notebook but the Bomber will no longer tell you anything (if mashed too quickly). Two, the rumor gets logged once you enter the next area, but will be a glitched entry. Moving your cursor over it glitches the entire notebook.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGHRfgMHHimD_) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTE8t0Un2UUzXN) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTE82GgCbvwkHl)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Squirelofjustice on March 09, 2015, 07:34:16 PM
Method mentioned in the forums a while ago. Just made a vid for reference.

http://youtu.be/nde5eZQpLus

Sorry for no sound.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 10, 2015, 03:33:14 AM
Jeville, probably this been asked before, but does that look like some sort of GIM type thing with the ruppie stuck on Link in that pic? ;0
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 10, 2015, 06:43:36 AM
Yeah. The linked post shows it closer, showing a gold Rupee if the chest's contents is changed to a heart piece. If changed to a green Rupee, it will show that on him. Taking out and putting away Ocarina with the camera facing the mailbox will restore its function, or you can ignore it and get yet another HP from the different mailbox. But not collecting it from the mailbox is what allows you to repeat the duplication process on a new cycle. It's not the most efficient method for the HP duplication itself considering the time stop method.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: ProfessionalRob on March 10, 2015, 07:50:38 AM
I'm not sure how this could be useful, and if this was known in MM64 sorry, I didn't glitch that as much, but if you do the boat-ride arrow mini-game and shoot an arrow through the torch to open the Skultulla house, your arrow shots glitch out after that, and it seems to me you end up shooting 2 arrows, one from yourself and one way beyond you.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 10, 2015, 09:04:36 AM
Goron Elder snowball. Real Final Day, cycle 2's, and cycle 5's. Cycle 15's is here (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGWLnY_EiudKu).

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGVMroJxZyx1e) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGVSjo3ZpaEBG) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGVInk2YnoPC8)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: JabaTheJefe on March 10, 2015, 06:02:27 PM
Okay so I can't seem to get the goht warp to work.. It keeps sending me out of bounds, I've tried copying the position in Ikana that I've seen in all the videos, AND I've tried the bed in the post office.. What am I doing wrong??  ???
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 10, 2015, 06:06:18 PM
When I tried the Post Office, I stayed near the door. I warped out of bounds, but got pushed in bounds.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 10, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
I discovered a way to skip the Swamp Title Deed!  

So, Grezzo tried to patch the old way of skipping the STD by simply putting an invisible ceiling above the door. Unfortunately for them, it's still possible. All you need to do is get under the awning half-way then pound, and as soon as you do, hold right. You get clipped half-way into the awning and suddenly end up on the roof. The timing an positioning is a little tricky, but it can be done consistently.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGXMXspoKFZOR) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGXF1cjrJlRSo) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGXIbEj-JInp_)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 10, 2015, 10:27:41 PM
I also found a fixed camera glitch in the southern swamp on the path to woodfall.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGWhhsNYfwrMk) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGWjyAJeR1YqM) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGWmDUUHuGHRf)

It's only possible to do on the 1st mushroom. All you do is enter the area, and without doing anything else, put on/change masks. Move forward and the camera will be fixed in the same position. It's not possible to use the pictobox and changing masks/using an instrument will change the position of the camera to your current spot. If you leave the mushroom the camera will return to normal.

I was thinking of a use for this and was wondering what would happen if you entered the cutscene trigger while in this state. Maybe the cutscene won't load? Could someone test this out?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 11, 2015, 10:42:49 AM
@Weegeechan  The swamp title deed skip is known (by not many) because they fixed the little roof in the Poisoned version of the swamp, but they forgot about the Clean version of the swamp, so after beating woodfall you can just clip through the roof normally with goron pound :p
And you can also do that you showed in the pic from the front side of the roof too heheh
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Arnge on March 11, 2015, 01:19:08 PM
without doing anything else, put on/change masks.
Just for clarification, does that include being human and changing to Deku?

Edit: I tried putting on the Deku mask right after entering, and the glitch didn't work, Maybe I was doing it wrong, but I think it only works if you're switching masks from one form to another. I'm gonna try that now.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 11, 2015, 02:15:49 PM
Just for clarification, does that include being human and changing to Deku?
Yes, you can use any transformation mask. I should note that, you have to enter the area with the camera facing the loading zone or else the camera won't be fixed when entering southern swamp. Then when entering the area, don't do anything besides putting on the mask. Btw have the transformation mask on X or Y (couldn't get the glitch to work with I or II for some reason)

@gaby: Ah, I think I remember a post about that previously actually :P Through this I discovered a new technique though (I think?). It let's you maneuver Goron in air after pounding. The frame you pound, press A right away and the direction you want to move in. He will move slightly but it will be just enough to get on top of certain ledges. In Clock Town it can be used to get the 20r chest in SCT without the Hookshot, get into Stock Pot at night without Deku, and to get into Kafei's hideout without the Zora Mask.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGhVDACcYpyQC) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGhXfEO24zqGb)

You can get into that tree and bomb boost from the branch to the ledge.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Arnge on March 11, 2015, 02:34:14 PM
Ah, I got the glitch :) Unfortunately, it doesn't skip the cutscene. It plays even with the locked camera. Great finds, though.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 11, 2015, 02:43:06 PM
Ah, I got the glitch :) Unfortunately, it doesn't skip the cutscene. It plays even with the locked camera. Great finds, though.

Haha, that sounds awesome! :D Oh well, thanks for testing this out anyways  :)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on March 11, 2015, 02:49:52 PM
Wait seriously??? Can you do this to get to Great Bay early? That sounds like you can get over some pretty hight ledge... please test and see if you can. This would be so fast
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Arnge on March 11, 2015, 03:16:26 PM
It isn't looking like it. I tried it about 5 times, he just slides back instead of landing on it. To be fair, though, I've never tried the jump before.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 11, 2015, 03:35:24 PM
@Weegeechan that's pretty cool actually didn't know that one about Kafei early with Goron Pound hahah, where else could we goron pound like that, besides these kind of ledges..
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 11, 2015, 03:36:51 PM
Can we reach the top of the Ikana rock instead or TSCing into it?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Arnge on March 11, 2015, 03:45:00 PM
Alright, I take back what I said earlier, since i can't do the glitch in Laundry Pool or ECT.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 11, 2015, 04:27:07 PM
Okay so I can't seem to get the goht warp to work.. It keeps sending me out of bounds, I've tried copying the position in Ikana that I've seen in all the videos, AND I've tried the bed in the post office.. What am I doing wrong??  ???

Do you have the v1.1 patch? Are you duping bottle over Gibdo mask? Are you at night time? Warp only works night time-> day time *transition of New Day. You need to catch HSW into that bottle THEN play fast ISOT so you go into 0th Day. Then play SoS to Clock Town and wait at postman bed until the Day transitions. (It would be wise to play SODT to 5PM night time so you don't have to wait alot). You should pop in bounds if you wait at the right spot in 0th day.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 11, 2015, 05:02:14 PM
I found some interesting Goron Air Manuever spots:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGi-Dwcb9lrXL) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGiwgg8KgsQel) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGYfVglV7d9Id)

Also, I discovered a way to make time stop while in buildings/mini-games. I believe this was in the original but I guess it required you to store the SoT text. All you need to do now is play either SoDT/SoS depending on the area you're in.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGhCeowriA0P4)

When the text pops up, just don't press A and then all time will be stopped. Sorry if this was found already, but I found nothing on it so far
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: JabaTheJefe on March 11, 2015, 06:44:09 PM
Yes I did all of this, i always just appear in the center of the map and don't pop in bounds, it's the only wrong warp that I can't get to work!! And no I have version 1.0
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Arnge on March 11, 2015, 07:16:20 PM
Whenever I do it I go to the path to Ikana, and I don't move once I'm in. I don't move at all. It always works for me.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 11, 2015, 08:03:12 PM
I found a way to skip using the bow for the rising platform section of Woodfall.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGkgrEBz5xow0) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGksvMjs8d7Fs)

You can light a Deku Stick on the torch already in the room (by crouching) and roll jump off of the ledges to make it to this torch in time. You can then bomb boost off the left side of the platform to make it to the boss door room.

So technically Woodfall can be completed without ever getting the bow :o Gekko can be defeated using Zora's boomerangs and the rest of the dungeon doesn't need the bow anyways.

Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: hcbboyhammer12 on March 11, 2015, 08:28:12 PM
Hey guys! I am finally back from being away for SUCH a long time... how is everyone?!?! I see how there are so many sweet discoveries!

Anyone willing to catch me up quickly on the major things?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 11, 2015, 08:36:33 PM
@hcbboyhammer12 one of the major things has been that you can action swap out of Tatl's text box and you can now skip getting fire arrows, action swap stick from hookshot/bow to get the fire arrow to unfreeze Goht, also (i guess is not that major but you can now get bottle on b on Zora :p
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: CloudMax on March 12, 2015, 12:27:31 AM
I found some interesting Goron Air Manuever spots:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGi-Dwcb9lrXL) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGiwgg8KgsQel) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGYfVglV7d9Id)

Also, I discovered a way to make time stop while in buildings/mini-games. I believe this was in the original but I guess it required you to store the SoT text. All you need to do now is play either SoDT/SoS depending on the area you're in.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGhCeowriA0P4)

When the text pops up, just don't press A and then all time will be stopped. Sorry if this was found already, but I found nothing on it so far

Many jumps can be done without even moving the goron in the air. (all the ones in clocktown at the very least, and has been possible since n64 as far as I know) with proper positioning, he can jump up onto most trees, which isn't something new either. (the fact that you still have control during pound isn't new either, it's just that it wasn't enough control to make any difference).
Zora Link can even flip through some branches to get up onto trees. (possible on at least one graveyard tree)

And timestop with the song textboxes has been know since pretty much day one.

Though, using the pound to get up onto the tree, that's something that I haven't seen before. (same goes for the roof)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 12, 2015, 08:19:48 AM
@hcbboyhammer12 one of the major things has been that you can action swap out of Tatl's text box and you can now skip getting fire arrows, action swap stick from hookshot/bow to get the fire arrow to unfreeze Goht, also (i guess is not that major but you can now get bottle on b on Zora :p

This pretty much. Also the Epona clip into Milk bar at night allows us to warp to STT and skip Elegy. and the Deku sword which gives pretty much the dmg of GFS. The any% route changed alot in the past 2 weeks.

And yes Cloudmax is right, the Timestop via textbox has been known since a while.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 12, 2015, 12:03:26 PM
Oh ok, well I at least found a couple of new things I suppose! :P Sorry for posting any already found stuff (and for potential future cases too). It's hard knowing what has been found without there being any videos or written down findings for some of these lol

Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: 2Tie on March 12, 2015, 12:26:44 PM
I will add that the pages for MM3D being pretty lacking in content definitely makes it hard to keep track of tricks and discoveries :P
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Arnge on March 12, 2015, 01:46:29 PM
I forget, is there ever a need for the bow outside Woodfall Temple? Because if there isn't (Not likely), then the bow skip could be really useful.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 12, 2015, 01:49:46 PM
Killing Gyorg. Inverting Stone Tower. Killing Twinmold. Killing Majora.

All these either require or are greatly sped up by using the bow.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 12, 2015, 03:04:31 PM
By the looks of it, skipping raising the platform might be faster. It would be nice if this could be tested!

Either way, shouldn't bow skip be technically possible if the fire arrows were just acquired later? Not that that is faster or anything.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 12, 2015, 03:11:43 PM
The bow comes with a quiver. You can't have arrows with any elemental arrow without it.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 12, 2015, 08:03:21 PM
Yeah even if you 'equip' an elemental arrow, you need to have the bow item to actually knock an arrow.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 13, 2015, 09:32:19 AM
So I finally got my hands on the game (YAY!), so I'm gonna do some testing on the Majora fight to see what I can do.
Possible theories:
-Gettting Wrath against a wall or in a corner makes it easier for the remains to hit with light balls
*Jumpslash cancel (rotate circle pad at the end of a jumpslash) with Deku sword can stunlock Majora if done properly since it allows u to get another jumpslash on him

*EDIT: HOLLEEE CRAP. Jumpslash cancel destroys wrath with 5 jump slashes from the Deku sword. They are all possible to land on him. Video coming soon.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: mzxrules on March 13, 2015, 10:51:16 AM
Goron Elder snowball. Real Final Day, cycle 2's, and cycle 5's. Cycle 15's is here (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTGWLnY_EiudKu).

That snowball just grows in size based on the real day counter, rather than the day of the week then?

Oh also I was wondering, in normal MM have you ever gotten outside the normal 0-4 day range?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 13, 2015, 02:03:01 PM
Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWI0sO8U3-c
Had a bad beginning to the fight, but that's not important. Once you got the rhythm down, its really easy.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Player-1 on March 13, 2015, 02:25:19 PM
Can someone explain how to do timestop with ocarina?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 13, 2015, 02:27:30 PM
That snowball just grows in size based on the real day counter, rather than the day of the week then?

Oh also I was wondering, in normal MM have you ever gotten outside the normal 0-4 day range?
Goron Elder can only be seen in the snowball on Final Day in MM3D. No snowball on 1st/2nd Day in all cycles and his position doesn't change on day anymore (uses normal MM's 2nd Day position).

No, I never did. I think it's still only possible with cheats for normal MM. :(
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 13, 2015, 09:54:23 PM
I just had an idea. Wouldn't it be quickest to use Action Swap-Fire Arrow Deku Stick in the Woodfall room I mentioned? It seems like it would be quicker than the current way it's done and it would be quicker than the Deku Stick method I mentioned.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 13, 2015, 09:57:20 PM
I just had an idea. Wouldn't it be quickest to use Action Swap-Fire Arrow Deku Stick in the Woodfall room I mentioned? It seems like it would be quicker than the current way it's done and it would be quicker than the Deku Stick method I mentioned.
If you mean the main room with the spinny flower platform, I tried, but he just shoots the middle of the torch without lightning it.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BALDORF! on March 13, 2015, 10:54:56 PM
I'd say FESSing through the woods should be done, it's not too hard after some practice.
If I can do it, you guys ought to be able.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69pTGV1zUkA&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 14, 2015, 03:02:08 AM
Goron drown warps you to your last entrance in the original, and it can still be done in MM3D (except the area doesn't reload). When you're at an edge, go down to drown by doing quick flicks with the circle pad as your only movement, and be quick to let go when you drown. If done right, you'll be at your last entrance after two drowns. If your last entrance came from an owl warp, the area will reload and you'll be human. When I tried this in the Termina Field grotto from the Great Bay entrance, I respawned out of bounds.

Edit: This can be of use for the Zora moon dungeon in 100%.

Something like this you meant? Lel http://t.co/0DqztTnWAp
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 14, 2015, 08:11:49 AM
Something like this you meant? Lel http://t.co/0DqztTnWAp
The result is the same, but the method is not. It can be done quick with any ledges with Goron form alone and the drowns don't need to happen fast. Do a Goron drown and the game will position where you should be. Fall back in the water with very slight tap movements, and repeat once more (with as much delay as you want, it doesn't matter how fast). It will fool the game into thinking you fell in without making a movement (thinking you're stuck in a loop hence having to do it twice) and puts you to your last entrance as a solution.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on March 14, 2015, 03:13:26 PM
I recently purchased a decent SD card (http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-HD-Ready-Frustration-Free-SDSDXPA-032G-AFFP/dp/B007NDL56A (http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-HD-Ready-Frustration-Free-SDSDXPA-032G-AFFP/dp/B007NDL56A)) and have found that home buffering is far more consistent! Note that this is the only game I have loaded on this card.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 14, 2015, 05:44:25 PM
Can someone explain how to do timestop with ocarina?
Just do normal timestop, but land right in front of a gossip stone.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 14, 2015, 08:23:15 PM
Okay, so I was in the middle of a practice run, and when I tried to use the deku sword, he pulled out a title deed instead... What would have caused this, because I'm positive that I did it correctly. I still had Kokiri Sword on Hylian Link from doing goron weird b, but deku got a title deed instead of GFS for some reason.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Jeville on March 14, 2015, 11:12:56 PM
When you're on Epona as Deku, you need to unequip the Deku Mask to take it off before you dismount. You need to dismount in Hylian form.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 15, 2015, 04:31:39 AM
But that's what I did.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BALDORF! on March 15, 2015, 11:37:40 AM
Did you use Zora to clip into milk bar when doing STT warp? Cause when I used Zora for that I also got a title deed instead of sword. Gotta use Link
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 15, 2015, 12:13:11 PM
I didn't know that you could use Zora to clip into the milk bar. Thinking back on it, I remember Tatl telling me that I couldn't reach the horse after I transformed into deku. Would that have caused it?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 15, 2015, 12:45:25 PM
Small Clock Town timesaver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0Okpu8L9ZY
Thank goodness that tower has two sides to it.
I'm thinking about adding this to the Clock Town on this site, but I wanna wait for someone to get a higher quality recording of it. I've added the jumpslash cancel section, but it would be good if someone got a better quality recording of the video I put on there, too.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BALDORF! on March 15, 2015, 08:54:12 PM
Well then I'd suggest what Jeville said, make sure you unequip the deku mask right after you transform. Don't hit any other buttons until your human again, same goes when you store again to get your sword back.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: AJPirate on March 17, 2015, 01:28:09 PM
I'm not sure if this was already discovered or if it has any use in a speedrun, but I found an interesting way to "teleport" Link using Epona and Mask storage. And you can bypass loading zones with it.

First perform Mask Storage and run up to Epona and climb on her just like you would while doing the Deku sword glitch. So now you should be on Epona as a mask form. Un-equip the mask from the X/Y/I/II button so now you're human Link. Without pressing any buttons, move the circle pad, Epona will start moving but Link won't. Now if you stop Epona and press A, Link will climb on Epona, then you can press A again to dismount, and voila, you've teleported!

But I also found a use for this, which is bypassing loading zones. I'm not sure if it's useful for anything in a speedrun but you can because apparently Epona doesn't trigger them.

So first, do the things you did up there to move Epona without Link, then move her into a loading zone. Rather then triggering it, she'll run right past it. So once you've gotten past it. Press A to climb on Epona and then again to dismount, and you'll be on the other side of the loading zone without triggering it. I thought this could be useful to maybe do something with Epona in clocktown? Because you can walk through some walls because they're not loaded.

Tell me what you think!
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 17, 2015, 04:50:03 PM
yeah AJPirate, that's being known since MM, that was one way you could get to hidden owl without explosives or cheats :P
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Squirelofjustice on March 17, 2015, 05:07:47 PM
For those who have more knowledge on the route than me, this may sound dumb to you, but I think bow is skipable. You can QuickDraw/action swap a fire arrow with hookshot. This may mean r.i.p bow but I'm not sure.

Edit: Nevermind. You have to have quiver
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: PVZBronyGod on March 17, 2015, 05:41:20 PM
For those who have more knowledge on the route than me, this may sound dumb to you, but I think bow is skipable. You can QuickDraw/action swap a fire arrow with hookshot. This may mean r.i.p bow but I'm not sure.

Edit: Nevermind. You have to have quiver

Hi this is PVZBronyGod...
I came here to discover more about the glitches of MM3D...
I do not know what Action Swap is. Tell me...
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: PVZBronyGod on March 17, 2015, 05:43:45 PM
Heart piece duplication!! You need 5th Day to do this:

1. Save at Mountain Village with Gibdo Mask slot changed to a bottle.
2. Quit the game, get a stopwatch.
3. Start a timer when you open the game.
4. When timer reaches 1:25, catch HSW.
5. Inverted Song of Time quickly. If purple banner says 2nd/Final Day, start over.*
6. Soar to town.
7. Speak to the carpenter carrying wood.
8. Carpenter will stay in place. Put on Postman's hat and check mailbox.
9. You'll move around with the text. Hookshot the 20 Rupee chest.
10. Face the camera to the mailbox and open the chest.
11. Gold Rupee will appear on Link but you'll get a heart piece and another.
12. Do not check the mailbox. Go back in time.
13. Repeat all steps. You get two pieces each time.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTDG--Y94QWJHA) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTDGKxwaDVysAh)

Notes:
The carpenter will either have to be close enough to the mailbox, or to have the camera facing him when you check.
Tapping buttons will not work when you move around with text, so only B/X/Y can be used.
*If you take Ocarina out fast enough to not see purple banner, you'll be on 0th Day so advance to midnight before soaring out to take you to dawn of 5th Day (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTCemKcBxhseYY).
Google docs for 5th Day stuff can be viewed here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yohIlHi0bIOTi6xntJmnh-gq-He0AusWQBCl2Oagu2Y/edit?usp=sharing).

FIFTH DAY??? Vid please
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: UchihaSasuke on March 17, 2015, 06:03:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjuiSX1HwCU

small timesave in inverted STT.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 17, 2015, 08:06:23 PM
I discovered an interesting speed trick with Deku Link. If u hold circle pad to sidehop, let go of L, and press A right before u land to Spin, Deku will spin at max speed. This is useful since it eliminates the startup Deku had when running or spinning, and the timing's not too strict IMO. A couple of notable spots so far are 1) tunnel before Tatl talks to u in front of Deku flower [backwalk, then sidehop spin around corner into Tatl CS] and 2) East Clock Town 1st cycle Day 1 [sidehop spin towards Deku flower].
Sidehop Spin. Kinda has a nice ring to it, don'cha think?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 17, 2015, 09:29:48 PM
I discovered a new way of clipping OoB using the restricted items trick. Sorry if this is already been found, but again, It wasn't discussed on here.

Anyways:

So what you do is, turn into Zora Link and dive underwater somewhere that has a ceiling above your head (like a tunnel or platform). Perform the RI trick and put on the Deku Mask. Since there is no place for Deku to surface, he will clip through the ceiling above you and be at the same level as the water in the area you're in. This on it's own can skip a few things just by bouncing up through platforms or something.
 
But I further found something to go along with this. After clipping with Deku, you'll eventually run out of bounces and void out in some area but I figured out a way to equip the Zora Mask before he even starts bouncing. This can let you swim around OoB and could potentially lead to some skips.

The way its done is, once you put on the deku mask, don't press any buttons to speed up the transformation (dont know if it matters but w/e). Then the 1-2 frames Deku starts his bounce, press up and the button for zora mask. If done correctly, you'll turn back into Zora while still being OoB.

I tested this in Great Bay:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTHD350xP2SjRB) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTHDJJQVRKUIiR)

Zora Hall:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTHCi8QvFSwgw6)

and Stone Tower:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTHwOvkYqAnKMR)

In Stone Tower, it can be used to get on the bridge with the Eyegore and it's possible to clip OoB under the door with the Garo Master. I think this spot should be messed around with cause if an early Light Arrows was found, that'd be awesome lol
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 18, 2015, 02:32:04 AM
Jump Slash Cancelling with a Mask is possible in MM3D, is the same jump as the extra jump from action swap from bow/hookshot to sword/stick, which theoretically you could "zombie hover" with.
 http://youtu.be/DFCFmIHta7c
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: PVZBronyGod on March 18, 2015, 04:03:50 AM
I discovered a new way of clipping OoB using the restricted items trick. Sorry if this is already been found, but again, It wasn't discussed on here.

Anyways:

So what you do is, turn into Zora Link and dive underwater somewhere that has a ceiling above your head (like a tunnel or platform). Perform the RI trick and put on the Deku Mask. Since there is no place for Deku to surface, he will clip through the ceiling above you and be at the same level as the water in the area you're in. This on it's own can skip a few things just by bouncing up through platforms or something.
 
But I further found something to go along with this. After clipping with Deku, you'll eventually run out of bounces and void out in some area but I figured out a way to equip the Zora Mask before he even starts bouncing. This can let you swim around OoB and could potentially lead to some skips.

The way its done is, once you put on the deku mask, don't press any buttons to speed up the transformation (dont know if it matters but w/e). Then the 1-2 frames Deku starts his bounce, press up and the button for zora mask. If done correctly, you'll turn back into Zora while still being OoB.

I tested this in Great Bay:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTHD350xP2SjRB) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTHDJJQVRKUIiR)

Zora Hall:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTHCi8QvFSwgw6)

and Stone Tower:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTHwOvkYqAnKMR)

In Stone Tower, it can be used to get on the bridge with the Eyegore and it's possible to clip OoB under the door with the Garo Master. I think this spot should be messed around with cause if an early Light Arrows was found, that'd be awesome lol

What would Light Arrow Early do..?
This glitch is intradesting! Could has many uses
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on March 18, 2015, 04:08:39 AM
We found this clipping method as soon as Restricted Items was discovered, the transformation at the end is new. So far it doesn't do much except let you hit a switch early in stone tower temple. It would be cool if we could skip the red turnkeys in Great Bay Temple with it though, knowing about this transformation technique
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 18, 2015, 04:16:13 AM
Jump Slash Cancelling with a Mask is possible in MM3D, is the same jump as the extra jump from action swap from bow/hookshot to sword/stick, which theoretically you could "zombie hover" with.
 http://youtu.be/DFCFmIHta7c
Now I can finally practice Sewer Skip. Woop Woop :)
Speaking of terminology, my suggestion for the name would be something like Zora Double Jump since Zora is technically the only one that can do this.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 18, 2015, 05:33:21 AM
Now I can finally practice Sewer Skip. Woop Woop :)
Speaking of terminology, my suggestion for the name would be something like Zora Double Jump since Zora is technically the only one that can do this.

No, this is done by all of the 3 forms, Human, Deku sword or Zora, when i found this out i was using Deku Link xD
Of course the reason he used was for the long jump.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: AJPirate on March 18, 2015, 07:31:46 AM
yeah AJPirate, that's being known since MM, that was one way you could get to hidden owl without explosives or cheats :P

Ah, ok. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 18, 2015, 07:46:26 AM
No, this is done by all of the 3 forms, Human, Deku sword or Zora, when i found this out i was using Deku Link xD
Of course the reason he used was for the long jump.
So then let's call it Double Jump. :p
Btw, I frickin love you and the guys that discovered it and its use. It's soooooooo easy and way better than the other setup.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 18, 2015, 08:46:22 AM
I discovered a new way of clipping OoB using the restricted items trick. Sorry if this is already been found, but again, It wasn't discussed on here.

Anyways:

So what you do is, turn into Zora Link and dive underwater somewhere that has a ceiling above your head (like a tunnel or platform). Perform the RI trick and put on the Deku Mask. Since there is no place for Deku to surface, he will clip through the ceiling above you and be at the same level as the water in the area you're in. This on it's own can skip a few things just by bouncing up through platforms or something.
 
But I further found something to go along with this. After clipping with Deku, you'll eventually run out of bounces and void out in some area but I figured out a way to equip the Zora Mask before he even starts bouncing. This can let you swim around OoB and could potentially lead to some skips.

The way its done is, once you put on the deku mask, don't press any buttons to speed up the transformation (dont know if it matters but w/e). Then the 1-2 frames Deku starts his bounce, press up and the button for zora mask. If done correctly, you'll turn back into Zora while still being OoB.

I tested this in Great Bay:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTHD350xP2SjRB) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTHDJJQVRKUIiR)

Zora Hall:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTHCi8QvFSwgw6)

and Stone Tower:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTHwOvkYqAnKMR)

In Stone Tower, it can be used to get on the bridge with the Eyegore and it's possible to clip OoB under the door with the Garo Master. I think this spot should be messed around with cause if an early Light Arrows was found, that'd be awesome lol
Could be used to reach loading zone of Gyorg the same way as the old 5 explosives way.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 18, 2015, 09:30:55 AM
So then let's call it Double Jump. :p
Btw, I frickin love you and the guys that discovered it and its use. It's soooooooo easy and way better than the other setup.

I think it can stay with the name imo, it comes from a thing from a while ago: http://youtu.be/oo1bkh3V0Uc
So that's why i came up just calling it jump slash animation cancelling, because you're cancelling the animation with something else, if you would to somehow use items after pressing a Mask in MM3D you can get "zombie hover" which it would be called something else then lol
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 18, 2015, 09:35:01 AM
I think it can stay with the name imo, it comes from a thing from a while ago: http://youtu.be/oo1bkh3V0Uc
So that's why i came up just calling it jump slash animation cancelling, because you're cancelling the animation with something else, if you would to somehow use items after pressing a Mask in MM3D you can get "zombie hover" which it would be called something else then lol
I'm suggesting a different name because there's already a technique in MM and MM3D called Jumpslash cancel where u rotate the control stick to cancel the endlag from a jumpslash. The terms can get easily confused, u know?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 18, 2015, 09:42:58 AM
how about mask jump?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 18, 2015, 10:26:36 AM
how about mask jump?
Sounds good. Gabe?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 18, 2015, 10:32:33 AM
how about mask jump?

Those are 2 words that should be in the name. I thought about Mask Jump Slash Cancel. (MJSC) I believe the definition should be the most exact possible so there's so confusion while still being unique.

Awesome find btw!
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 18, 2015, 10:49:33 AM
I like keeping the name simple. Mask Jump slash cancel sounds too wordy. Mask Jump (MJ) sounds better to me. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 18, 2015, 11:21:14 AM
I guess is up to you guys :P, i would say "Mask JumpSlash Cancel" or "JumpSlash Mask Cancel (or Cancelling)" because Mask Cancel also goes (for example) into cancelling ESS (if you do ESS position and press Mask button you transform cancelling ESS position without even stopping first like ess dupe). Its source (for me Keepo) will always be "JumpSlash Animation Cancelling" Kappab
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: ToxicPlaysStuff on March 18, 2015, 12:45:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE5rDtReHUM&ab_channel=PhilippBecker
Not my video, but I thought it was pretty interesting. I can't seem to replicate it though. And for people who can't do unbuffered gainers, this is my video for a consistent Clocktown gainer. It saves the time wasted going to the home menu to buffer it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTL8uR6_mG8
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: PVZBronyGod on March 18, 2015, 12:59:44 PM
I need info about the 5th Day glitch..
First of all, what is it? And is there any use for it in a speedrun?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 18, 2015, 01:03:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE5rDtReHUM&ab_channel=PhilippBecker
Not my video, but I thought it was pretty interesting. I can't seem to replicate it though. And for people who can't do unbuffered gainers, this is my video for a consistent Clocktown gainer. It saves the time wasted going to the home menu to buffer it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTL8uR6_mG8

the angle flip is already known.

the slash hover thing is very interesting. I'll check into it later, maybe we can skip the whole gap.

edit: looks like a seam walk glitch
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 18, 2015, 01:42:34 PM
https://youtu.be/SR7j44K7T80
Lol so this happened.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 18, 2015, 02:00:02 PM
Alright, we're naming it Mask Jump. Someone put the video in the wrong section, so there's already confusion with the name. I'll remove the edits on the Jumpslash Cancel page and put in a new page for Mask Jump.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: mzxrules on March 18, 2015, 04:13:01 PM
I need info about the 5th Day glitch..
First of all, what is it? And is there any use for it in a speedrun?

If you read the post you quoted you'd have a basic understanding of it.

I don't have the savestates to analyse the glitch to confirm, but basically with MM things work like this:

You have 4 byte day counter. The intended day range is 0-4, where 0 is the day before you enter Termina, 1-3 are your main three days, and the 4th day is the Dawn of a New Day. Normally, even if you get into the 4th day, it's impossible to go farther than that since the 4th day rolls over back to the 4th. When you dupe over the Gibdo Mask and store Hot Water in that bottle, it speeds up time crazy fast for some reason, allowing you to shoot past the 4th day.

Now, to determine what day of the week it is, some things will take the current day variable, divide it by 5, then use the remainder to figure out what the current day is, while others use the day variable as is.

So the 5th day glitch is not necessarily glitching to the 5th day, but rather glitching beyond day 4 to where (day variable % 5) == 1, same thing as the New Day wrong warp.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 18, 2015, 05:42:48 PM
Alright, we're naming it Mask Jump. Someone put the video in the wrong section, so there's already confusion with the name. I'll remove the edits on the Jumpslash Cancel page and put in a new page for Mask Jump.

We were debating with the name of the glitch (some runners and me) and we didn't fully decided but we think that the best name could be JumpSlash Cancelling since, the name itself explains the trick, you cancel the jump slash animation and then Rename the previous jump slash cancel into something else since you really are not cancelling the jump slash, you're just canceling the endlag like you mentioned earlier ;P
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 18, 2015, 06:14:55 PM
I found a really simple timesaver (?) that skips the tiny running cutscene when approaching the owl statue in clock town. All you do is wait to activate the statue instead of doing it in the 1st cycle. You can then just approach it like every other statue in the game.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTINEywoMeB8r0)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 18, 2015, 08:25:47 PM
We were debating with the name of the glitch (some runners and me) and we didn't fully decided but we think that the best name could be JumpSlash Cancelling since, the name itself explains the trick, you cancel the jump slash animation and then Rename the previous jump slash cancel into something else since you really are not cancelling the jump slash, you're just canceling the endlag like you mentioned earlier ;P
Well... Crap. Screwed me over there.
Uhhhhh..... Doggone flabber biscuits, this is such a dilemma. Feel like throwing a Super Smash Bros term here. A-Cancel, J-Cancel..... ?????
Welp.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 18, 2015, 09:28:38 PM
I feel like Mask Jump suits the trick just fine. It accurately describes what is happening, you are using a mask to jump. It's also short, sweet, and to the point.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 18, 2015, 09:50:12 PM
Okay, so I was in Stone Tower, and when I did the ledge clip to get to BK, I targeted a bubble, and it put me into the tunnel with the bubbles, rather than OoB just outside the door.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 19, 2015, 08:47:54 AM
I made this strawpoll, i guess share it with everyone and everyone who reads this, probaly we see who likes what more #OpieOP http://strawpoll.me/3907535
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 19, 2015, 09:27:35 AM
I really don't see why this is being debated so much. It's just a name.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: The Snarky Lesbian on March 19, 2015, 09:55:47 AM
Hey there, completely new speedrunner here.

I have a question regarding the rupee farming for the 5000 rupee HP. In Benstephens1000's 100% rupees, it says killing eenos with light arrows. Which Eenos is that referring to? Also, is that really the fastest method?

In my first 100% file I used the Clock Town Shooting Gallery to farm the rupees. Every win after getting the Shooting Gallery HP and the Quiver awards Link with a a gold rupee (200 rupees). Doing that about 28-30 times awards about 5000 rupees. Now, the Shooting Gallery minigame takes about a minute to a minute and 20 seconds to complete. Depending on how well you do, every cycle with getting the rupees and running back to the bank takes about 4-5 minutes. Which is not all that bad.

But you guys are the pros, what do you think about that method?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on March 19, 2015, 09:59:59 AM
The eenos are the snowman enemies in North termina field at night. Every eeno that you kill with a light arrow gives you 50 rupees so 10 eenos fills your wallet, and it's fast to get there. Every trip for 500 rupees take about 1:30 which is pretty good honestly. The shooting gallery is definitely not a fast idea at all. It would take around 3 times longer to do it this way! Plus, the gallery isn't open at night which is the best time to do this, so you'd have to ledge clip in every time!
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: The Snarky Lesbian on March 19, 2015, 10:36:34 AM
Okay, that IS a pretty cool strat. A lot faster than my octorok genocide, and the risk of failure is nil.

Nice, thanks a lot!
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on March 19, 2015, 12:03:04 PM
Do bubbles still give 50R when killed via light arrow?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: PVZBronyGod on March 19, 2015, 03:14:20 PM
If you read the post you quoted you'd have a basic understanding of it.

I don't have the savestates to analyse the glitch to confirm, but basically with MM things work like this:

You have 4 byte day counter. The intended day range is 0-4, where 0 is the day before you enter Termina, 1-3 are your main three days, and the 4th day is the Dawn of a New Day. Normally, even if you get into the 4th day, it's impossible to go farther than that since the 4th day rolls over back to the 4th. When you dupe over the Gibdo Mask and store Hot Water in that bottle, it speeds up time crazy fast for some reason, allowing you to shoot past the 4th day.

Now, to determine what day of the week it is, some things will take the current day variable, divide it by 5, then use the remainder to figure out what the current day is, while others use the day variable as is.

So the 5th day glitch is not necessarily glitching to the 5th day, but rather glitching beyond day 4 to where (day variable % 5) == 1, same thing as the New Day wrong warp.
K
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: PVZBronyGod on March 20, 2015, 01:12:57 PM
So i have some more questions...
Giant Link, should it be posted to the Remake Changes page?
How much damage does Giant Link's attacks do?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 21, 2015, 05:00:56 PM
Should I make a thread on adding/editing pages to the MM3D section on the ZSR website? I think it would be good to make one because there are pages that are lacking in content (mainly the dungeon and boss sections) and we can discuss edits that should be made.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Pedalpowertoast on March 22, 2015, 03:11:38 AM
Besides adding/editing, put general guidelines too. (game capitalization, OoT vs. OOT, official names for moves, Jump Attack vs. Jump Slash) the latter which I think should be discussed further.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gamestabled on March 22, 2015, 08:28:50 AM
threads for that already exist in editors discussion  http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?board=26.0
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 22, 2015, 01:09:50 PM
It's been thought, we should rename Jumpslash Cancel to either JumpAttack Landing Cancel or Landing Cancel since you're just canceling the landing of a jump slash and Mask Jump to JumpAttack Cancel or JumpSlash Cancel since you're canceling the Jump Attack in midair.
What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: UchihaSasuke on March 22, 2015, 05:43:09 PM
Do bubbles still give 50R when killed via light arrow?

i used the bubbles to farm the 5000 rupees like the 2005 100% run but ben's strat is slightly faster since there's a lot more Eenos.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: TopazPhoenix on March 25, 2015, 05:49:14 PM
Hey, I'm kinda new and was recently messing around with the game after beating it. Before I new about how Bottle Adventure worked in this game compared to OoT, I was convinced that the inclusion of the Fishing Hole would break the game, so I did some extensive tests on that, and also messed around with RI, mainly with FD. I found out a few things that have and haven't been mentioned here. First, the fishing hole. I escaped the hole using SoS, which is known, and discovered that reentering the hole resets your standard B, and that the forms each have standard and secondary B actions based on their status. Entering maps other than the hole keep the Rod. I also discovered that the Blacksmith reads from your B button rather than from the gear menu, since he gave Human Link the alternate form text. This makes me wonder what would happen if you somehow got Kokiri again after upgrading, then trying to upgrade again. I also discovered that FD actually shares the B button with Link, since changing to him with B Rod changed B to the FD sword, then back to the normal sword. I really want to see weird B with FD, but you can only use the Pictobox, which can't be used midair. I also "found" the Bottle on B via Deku Sword (before I came here) and encountered the first cycle glitch, so I put the Ocarina on B to see what had happened and found all of the songs still intact. By the way, is the Deku Sword the GF sword, or a normal sword with bugged damage values? While messing around with FD, I humorously found him unable to climb ladders. He doesn't crash, but ladder climbing sounds play while FD stares at the ladder, contemplating how ladders are supposed to work and how to use them. Also, I noticed the descriptions for BA masks saying that some worked similar to the Gibdo's mask, but do they have the same warps? Also, is it possible to use ocarina items or some other method to interrupt the Blue Warp to activate a wrong warp? I want to find a way to potentially go straight to the moon, similar to OoT. If not, I want to find a way to manipulate gear values in the gear menu. That's why I want to upgrade to Gilded twice, to see what would happen. That's all, really. May not be helpful, but just want to put it out there.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 25, 2015, 11:28:52 PM
I was messing around in Pirates' Fortress today, when I realized the main area with the tower can be completed much quicker. We've been using Zora to take out the Gerudo but if you do the area as Goron its much faster. The only hard part about it is getting the Gerudo in front of the tower but I figured out a way to do it quick.

All you do is roll to this spot;

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTKHD74R3ls5Cc)

then wait for the Gerudo to start walking to the right like in the picture, then quickly roll behind her and punch her. Then the Gerudo on the bridge can be rolled up to and punched.

I timed this just to be sure and it ended up being 6-7 seconds faster then when Zora.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: PVZBronyGod on March 26, 2015, 04:19:53 AM
Hey, I'm kinda new and was recently messing around with the game after beating it. Before I new about how Bottle Adventure worked in this game compared to OoT, I was convinced that the inclusion of the Fishing Hole would break the game, so I did some extensive tests on that, and also messed around with RI, mainly with FD. I found out a few things that have and haven't been mentioned here. First, the fishing hole. I escaped the hole using SoS, which is known, and discovered that reentering the hole resets your standard B, and that the forms each have standard and secondary B actions based on their status. Entering maps other than the hole keep the Rod. I also discovered that the Blacksmith reads from your B button rather than from the gear menu, since he gave Human Link the alternate form text. This makes me wonder what would happen if you somehow got Kokiri again after upgrading, then trying to upgrade again. I also discovered that FD actually shares the B button with Link, since changing to him with B Rod changed B to the FD sword, then back to the normal sword. I really want to see weird B with FD, but you can only use the Pictobox, which can't be used midair. I also "found" the Bottle on B via Deku Sword (before I came here) and encountered the first cycle glitch, so I put the Ocarina on B to see what had happened and found all of the songs still intact. By the way, is the Deku Sword the GF sword, or a normal sword with bugged damage values? While messing around with FD, I humorously found him unable to climb ladders. He doesn't crash, but ladder climbing sounds play while FD stares at the ladder, contemplating how ladders are supposed to work and how to use them. Also, I noticed the descriptions for BA masks saying that some worked similar to the Gibdo's mask, but do they have the same warps? Also, is it possible to use ocarina items or some other method to interrupt the Blue Warp to activate a wrong warp? I want to find a way to potentially go straight to the moon, similar to OoT. If not, I want to find a way to manipulate gear values in the gear menu. That's why I want to upgrade to Gilded twice, to see what would happen. That's all, really. May not be helpful, but just want to put it out there.

RBA in MM3D would be a great discovery. I also want a system similar to BA in OoT that configures the B button. I wanna try putting Zora Fins on Human's B, or Goron Punch on Human's B. Changing FD Link's value would be cool too.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 26, 2015, 03:09:05 PM
Don't know if its known by everyone, but I wanted to make this clear.
Like in OoT3d, you can't auto-roll from a full jump. That ability instead gets passed on to Goron Link which I find a very stupid move on Grezzo's part.

However, you can still do a sort of psuedo-autoroll. If you jump and press A right before Link touches the ground, you will roll (or spin as Deku) with max speed, eliminating the landing lag. You'll know you got it if Link rolls in the same direction he faces when he jumps and (as Deku) the spin has no startup. Note: Deku can do this after a sidehop as well. Just don't forget to untarget before you press A.

For example, at the very beginning of the game in the forest, you can do this on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th jump to get across the platforms a bit faster. Be careful about the direction you're facing before the 3rd jump because Link can't move freely in a roll (like in TP and SS). For practice, I suggest being in South Clock Town and jump off the sides of Clock Tower since they're easily accessible. You can practice sidehop spinning as Deku here too on the slopes and on flat surface. I've managed to get the timing down pretty consistently since I've got a good feel for it (I get it 9/10 times).

Video to come soon.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 26, 2015, 08:12:34 PM
I went back and started doing crap with the jump slash cancel stuff when an idea randomly blew into my mind, i tested for like 7 minutes and found out that it's actually possible, if you go into your mask inventory right when you perform a jump slash cancel (mask jump) (1 or 2 frames after i guess?) and put away the mask you used, after the canceling of the jump slash you still have control of Link.meaning you can still perform another normal jump slash or whatever else. Both human link and zora get this thing, as if taking out tthe mask a frame after makes link not go into "cutscene mode"

If TAS was possible this could easily be done making this a sort-of-type "zombie hover" in MM3D.

Concept video of what im rambling about: https://youtu.be/aS6WQc8Kt_U (excluding the crash and you don't have to jump slash right away after the first one)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 27, 2015, 09:30:57 AM
I went back and started doing crap with the jump slash cancel stuff when an idea randomly blew into my mind, i tested for like 7 minutes and found out that it's actually possible, if you go into your mask inventory right when you perform a jump slash cancel (mask jump) (1 or 2 frames after i guess?) and put away the mask you used, after the canceling of the jump slash you still have control of Link.meaning you can still perform another normal jump slash or whatever else. Both human link and zora get this thing, as if taking out tthe mask a frame after makes link not go into "cutscene mode"

If TAS was possible this could easily be done making this a sort-of-type "zombie hover" in MM3D.

Concept video of what im rambling about: https://youtu.be/aS6WQc8Kt_U (excluding the crash and you don't have to jump slash right away after the first one)
Woah, nice! That would be an awesome trick to see in a TAS

Do you know why it crashed though?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 27, 2015, 10:31:25 AM
I went back and started doing crap with the jump slash cancel stuff when an idea randomly blew into my mind, i tested for like 7 minutes and found out that it's actually possible, if you go into your mask inventory right when you perform a jump slash cancel (mask jump) (1 or 2 frames after i guess?) and put away the mask you used, after the canceling of the jump slash you still have control of Link.meaning you can still perform another normal jump slash or whatever else. Both human link and zora get this thing, as if taking out tthe mask a frame after makes link not go into "cutscene mode"

If TAS was possible this could easily be done making this a sort-of-type "zombie hover" in MM3D.

Concept video of what im rambling about: https://youtu.be/aS6WQc8Kt_U (excluding the crash and you don't have to jump slash right away after the first one)

Like the MM jump slash cancel hover thing MrGrunz (or GnS?) cant remember who did back few years ago on MM64. So maybe hovering that way would be usefull in a TAS of mm3d. But for us... not much use for it. Your theory doesn't seem to work if it crashes the game. Maybe it's like a HESS crash from a wrong input button/cursor. Try it again without holding an input longer than 1-2frame for the 2nd slash cancel/mask jump.

Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 27, 2015, 11:02:39 AM
Like the MM jump slash cancel hover thing MrGrunz (or GnS?) cant remember who did back few years ago on MM64. So maybe hovering that way would be usefull in a TAS of mm3d. But for us... not much use for it. Your theory doesn't seem to work if it crashes the game. Maybe it's like a HESS crash from a wrong input button/cursor. Try it again without holding an input longer than 1-2frame for the 2nd slash cancel/mask jump.



The times I've done this it didn't crash but it did in the vid, because it has the same effects like the action swap extra jump one (it was by GaS, not Grunz :P) it crashes because the is suppose to be a "back slash" animation Link does in MM64 (https://youtu.be/Ppa3yJUO6OY)  that i imagine it got removed in MM3D and since the game doesn't find the animation it simply crashes, you can easily avoid the crash just by pulling another item and jump slash again (which is what TAS could do to make the other Jumpslash Cancel).

In short, the crash doesn't have anything to do with the actual "hovering" :P (hope you guys know by now my English is not that great so i may write things wrong or confusing sometimes)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on March 27, 2015, 12:33:16 PM
Woah, nice! That would be an awesome trick to see in a TAS

Do you know why it crashed though?
Jump slash animation crashes after mask cancel; we saw this when we did these sort of jumps the old way in this game via action swap. Also, after testing, I've found that zora JS doesn't crash if you do it far enough from the ground, so no crash failure worries. Maybe Link's is the same way?

I don't think this is tas only, but there will be lots of buffering. What I've been doing is as Zora Link buffering home with thumb + b with middle while holding the item button with my index, holding item button + goron or deku mask button, pressing home, then releasing everything for a frame. pull out bottle, rinse repeat hopefully without messing up the timing on home+ b + item for the 4 - 5 times you need to reach the height you need. However, getting the bottle out in time is really hard, and I'm struggling not to lose height.
 If we get this consistent, we'll be able to skip epona and probably hookshot at the very least, and have a way to bk skip for STT; this is probably enough for sub-MM2D on its own.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 27, 2015, 04:36:05 PM
This is what I was talking about before: http://youtu.be/HnNO78yCt9g
Hope it makes more sense.
Also, I think this is as fast as the jumping part in the beginning can get: http://youtu.be/2BTL2wxwNUU
Jump slash animation crashes after mask cancel; we saw this when we did these sort of jumps the old way in this game via action swap. Also, after testing, I've found that zora JS doesn't crash if you do it far enough from the ground, so no crash failure worries. Maybe Link's is the same way?

I don't think this is tas only, but there will be lots of buffering. What I've been doing is as Zora Link buffering home with thumb + b with middle while holding the item button with my index, holding item button + goron or deku mask button, pressing home, then releasing everything for a frame. pull out bottle, rinse repeat hopefully without messing up the timing on home+ b + item for the 4 - 5 times you need to reach the height you need. However, getting the bottle out in time is really hard, and I'm struggling not to lose height.
 If we get this consistent, we'll be able to skip epona and probably hookshot at the very least, and have a way to bk skip for STT; this is probably enough for sub-MM2D on its own.
If Bk skip in STT is possible, I can see it being much a run ender. U can end up either screwing it up and voiding out or crash the game. Either way, looks like we'll be grinding STT a lot more from now on.
Mask jump to skip epona and hookshot? Ehhhhhh..... Well, for one, there's no way we're skipping epona because we need her for a warp and climbing ST would be a pain in the butt. And those 5 minutes supposebly saved from skipping hookshot would probably dwindle down since mask jumping is pretty slow.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 27, 2015, 06:53:12 PM
I discovered a way to do the Deku Palace maze quicker!

First off, that first deku in the maze can be walked by easily. I don't know why we've been waiting lol:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTKmZnc9q6SKVZ)

Then the door frame that we backflip on with Zora can also be backflipped on by Deku. Furthermore, you can then backflip onto the platform with the deku flower for a quicker way of doing that section.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTKmToAiE7Smht)

Then you can also get on the end platform even quicker:

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTKmdXsw41TFdL) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTKlgAoFuBF1fj)

As shown in the picture above, wait until the platform gets to about that spot, the fly out towards the platform and you'll pop up on top.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 27, 2015, 07:03:48 PM
I forgot, I also found an "Impossible Rupee" similar to the "Impossible Coin" in Super Mario 64.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTKlXQUvQhoMmv)

Thought this was neat because it's completely OoB for some reason. Makes me wonder if it's in the original MM? Is it even known about actually?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on March 27, 2015, 08:48:08 PM
This is what I was talking about before: http://youtu.be/HnNO78yCt9g
Hope it makes more sense.
Also, I think this is as fast as the jumping part in the beginning can get: http://youtu.be/2BTL2wxwNUUIf Bk skip in STT is possible, I can see it being much a run ender. U can end up either screwing it up and voiding out or crash the game. Either way, looks like we'll be grinding STT a lot more from now on.
Mask jump to skip epona and hookshot? Ehhhhhh..... Well, for one, there's no way we're skipping epona because we need her for a warp and climbing ST would be a pain in the butt. And those 5 minutes supposebly saved from skipping hookshot would probably dwindle down since mask jumping is pretty slow.
When I was talking about skipping Epona, I was saying that with jump slash cancel hovering we'd find some alternate clip into milk bar; arbitrary height and distance travel solves a lot of issues with it IIRC.

Also, hook shot skip is made a bit more viable because we could take fairy fountain alt exit to ikana. Hookshot skip's much less viable than epona skip I grant you.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 28, 2015, 05:50:03 AM
When I was talking about skipping Epona, I was saying that with jump slash cancel hovering we'd find some alternate clip into milk bar; arbitrary height and distance travel solves a lot of issues with it IIRC.
For milk bar clip, It seems possible if we find a corner to triple slash in that faces the loading zone, but we'd need the time to be 2 or 3 AM to get in. Remember that we can't change direction of the jumpslash in midair.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on March 28, 2015, 09:03:32 AM
We could maybe do a grunz clip with an actor and then do this, old jumpslash would be facing the right direction.
I feel like this could also have potential for goron mask skip.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on March 28, 2015, 03:19:34 PM
We could maybe do a grunz clip with an actor and then do this, old jumpslash would be facing the right direction.
I feel like this could also have potential for goron mask skip.

I don't think Goht without goron mask is possible though. Epona skip would be usefull... I'm sure there's a way to zora clip in there.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 28, 2015, 09:03:12 PM
I found a way to do the main Woodfall area faster. You can turn into Zora and swim across the swamp, hookshot the chest near the owl statue, then Long Jump to the platform.

I made a video for it so that it's easier to know the setup and where to swim to. There's quite a large area of water where there is no poison for some reason  :-\

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-dnSYZh2ec

EDIT: You can also swim up to the owl platform, the change into Goron and pound up to lock onto the owl statue, save, then reload your file. This is probably slower and it might not even be doable with 3 hearts but w/e

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTK-JSkozLxMsu)

Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BassSlap on March 29, 2015, 05:40:59 AM
Hey, I don't know if this is the right place to put this but I have found a crash glitch. Thought this would help in-case a speedrunner does this. If you are in northern clock town and enter the deku playground just as the bomb cut-scene starts it will 'soft' crash. You will see the scene but instead of entering the hole you will just hover there as the text "Ouch! Watch where you're going!" stays on the screen. The normal sounds (bomber kid walking around and shooting the balloon and the crickets) play but you cannot do anything.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 29, 2015, 07:43:45 PM
Well, I found a few things today. The first thing I think is pretty sick and I hope there can be a use for it somewhere.

I call it Chain Bombing because what it does is allow Link to explode Bombs one after the other without stopping (as long as your timing is right). What you do is:

1. Shield drop a bomb
2. Shield crouch until the bomb explodes
3. As soon as the bomb hits your shield, almost instantly shield drop another bomb
4. The bomb will explode and then another bomb can be dropped and shielded
5. Repeat to keep exploding bomb after bomb.

I made a video of it too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox7Qe371pO8&feature=youtu.be

The other trick I found is a form of Mask Storage that has some clipping potential.

With the Hookshot, go into first person, get right up to a hookshot-able surface (not always necessary) and aim as far up the surface as you can. Fire the hookshot and almost immediately put on a mask right after. I only tested it on torches, but Link will always fly towards the object and clip through it. He'll then put on whatever mask you stored.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 30, 2015, 04:30:16 AM
I think "chain bombing" was already known from mm64 because it was one of the ways to get your health down to a certain amount. Used to be helpful for great bay bk skip on 64
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on March 30, 2015, 11:37:39 AM
I think "chain bombing" was already known from mm64 because it was one of the ways to get your health down to a certain amount. Used to be helpful for great bay bk skip on 64
Huh, interesting! Well at least there's a vid of it now for MM3D. I guess it could still be used at some point down the line. Who knows  :P
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 30, 2015, 01:31:52 PM
Huh, interesting! Well at least there's a vid of it now for MM3D. I guess it could still be used at some point down the line. Who knows  :P
It looks like it could be useful for something, but it's a HUGE waste of bombs. I dunno, time will tell.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on March 31, 2015, 10:53:19 AM
After some testing of consecutive mask jumps, I think I have some bad news. I'm pretty sure it can't be used to gain height at all. The time it takes between link pulling out the bottle and the frame he becomes able to do a jump slash is too long, and he loses too much height.

This doesn't mean it can't be used for skips; it just means it's restricted to horizontal distance travel, which should still be enough to skip epona and probably do STT boss key skip but not enough to do fairy fountain alt exit.

More testing needs to be done though. You can't really home buffer when unpausing from the item menu because a certain frame softlocks the game, meaning I couldn't perfectly test it. Either way, the vertical distance gained is tiny if it exists at all, meaning using it for that purpose is out of the question, even for TAS given how long it would take.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on March 31, 2015, 02:41:03 PM
Btw, how are we going to get into milk bar with mask jump? i'm thinking we can ledge clip on the wall next to the east clock town guard and Mask jump there, but i'm not so sure.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 31, 2015, 03:02:07 PM
Thanks to PlayMyLife, who figured out how to keep Link's arms raised during getting hit with a bomb, to perform Bomb OI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHeHJiDtc8M

Bomb OI Confirmed to still work :P
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on April 01, 2015, 08:06:28 AM
It's possible to navigate the Song of Soaring menu a bit faster.
After you play it, as soon as the text box for it disappears you can start pressing towards the point you want to warp to before the map comes up.
Example, you want to warp to stone tower, as soon as the text box disappears, you press right twice before the map appears and mash A to get through the prompts. Saves ~0.5 seconds.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: EXDEATH on April 01, 2015, 12:44:29 PM
Alternate Moon Tear Skip
 I used to do it on MM64 as a kid before i saw Gainers being done nowadays
https://youtu.be/DO0YUWxCbBk
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on April 04, 2015, 12:36:37 PM
Did extensives tests with kamaro BA... some new stuff:

Infinite day change until moon crash
(It also made Spring mountain village into Winter mountain village).

infinite fire arrow... you can move arround by holding L target and shield. Death cancels the effects.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on April 08, 2015, 08:12:52 AM
Did extensives tests with kamaro BA... some new stuff:

Infinite day change until moon crash
(It also made Spring mountain village into Winter mountain village).

infinite fire arrow... you can move arround by holding L target and shield. Death cancels the effects.

Yeah, pretty much Great Fairy Sword, fire arrows, ocarina and drinking chateu romani are confirmed to happened, never got fire arrows after the first time it happened lol https://youtu.be/PzLzzQoEt0w

Do you think is like Gibdo's? Using a timer or something to make stuff happen?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on April 08, 2015, 02:43:51 PM
Yeah, pretty much Great Fairy Sword, fire arrows, ocarina and drinking chateu romani are confirmed to happened, never got fire arrows after the first time it happened lol https://youtu.be/PzLzzQoEt0w

Do you think is like Gibdo's? Using a timer or something to make stuff happen?

Oh yah, drinking bottle... got that too lol. Did this shit for 3 hours. But the most common one is the infinite ocarina. The rarest ones seem to be Infinite Day Change and Infinite fire arrow. Only got those once too...

I also once got link with Goron mask effect. And few times the Fairy mask quick on/off.

I actually tried to mess with time, I tried to mess with my item equips... I tried to mess with how you exist grotto (jumpslash, backflip etc.), I tried the 2 HSW grottos and I didn't find any consistency whatsoever. It really seems to write memory adresses randomly. So everytime you exit grotto you're like "ok wtf will happen now" lol.

So these are all the effects known to date of Kamaro BA:

Infinite Ocarina
Infinite GFS
Infinite Fire Arrow
Infinite Romani Bottle Drink
Infinite Day Change
Goron Mask on Link
Great Fairy Mask quick on/off
Game crash


Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Powerstar9 on April 08, 2015, 05:25:36 PM
Can someone clarify what you guys mean by "infinite?" same animation (softlock), infinite ammo... What?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Zyxeos on April 08, 2015, 10:07:42 PM
Hi guys! I was wondering if anybody had written a detailed guide on Action Swap (Fire arrow with Deku Stick) Glitch. This is a really neat glitch and I am seeing the top speedrunners for MM3D Any% do it multiple times on the run. There are very few tricks that I have yet to master until I can start fully running the game, and I am guessing I am not the only one that wants to learn Action Swap. So please let me know how this trick works!!

Thank you :D

Z
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: kronspik on April 08, 2015, 10:51:51 PM
There are 2 useful ways to trigger action swap in any%:

1) Pull out your bow and draw an arrow in first-person mode. With the arrow still drawn, press stick and then press Tatl 1 frame later. If you set an alarm, you can get a Tatl dialog anytime you want.
- Used in Woodfall temple to light the torch (Tatl wants to talk to you in this room, so you can leverage that)
- Used to unfreeze Goht via Tatl alarm

2) Have the bow in your hand. You can do this easily by aiming with the bow and then blocking. Then go up to an NPC and hold R. While holding R, press stick and then talk to the NPC 1 frame later.
- Used in mountain area to get action swap from Tingle.

Then, once you have action swap through one of the above methods, pull out your bow in first person (but don't draw an arrow). Then hold L, press the stick button, and release the stick button. You will shoot a flaming arrow.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on April 09, 2015, 08:28:03 AM
Can someone clarify what you guys mean by "infinite?" same animation (softlock), infinite ammo... What?

We mean infinite draw/cycles. It's a cycle you cannot get out of (at least as of what we know of today).

The infinite fire arrow is basically link drawing out a fire arrow infinitly. (you cannot shoot it).

Hi guys! I was wondering if anybody had written a detailed guide on Action Swap (Fire arrow with Deku Stick) Glitch. This is a really neat glitch and I am seeing the top speedrunners for MM3D Any% do it multiple times on the run. There are very few tricks that I have yet to master until I can start fully running the game, and I am guessing I am not the only one that wants to learn Action Swap. So please let me know how this trick works!!

Thank you :D

Z

You are probably not holding L while trying it.

Press start button -> circle pad to right -> press the Talt alarm button -> Set talt alarm -> SoDT to the time of Alarm -> equip hookshot + stick on X-Y -> put hookshot in first person -> Press stick + fast the right D pad input (if you hear the putaway sound you while talt text comes up you did it right). Press Stick + press L target (You have a few frames only). Or you can press L before and after the stick button so it's not frame perfect.

Also someone should put Action Swap in the tricks section and what it's usefull for (Melt Goht, Melt grotto ice blocks, alternative to Mountain Early)

Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Zyxeos on April 09, 2015, 04:30:59 PM
We mean infinite draw/cycles. It's a cycle you cannot get out of (at least as of what we know of today).

The infinite fire arrow is basically link drawing out a fire arrow infinitly. (you cannot shoot it).

You are probably not holding L while trying it.

Press start button -> circle pad to left -> press the Talt alarm button -> Set talt alarm -> SoDT to the time of Alarm -> equip hookshot + stick on X-Y -> put hookshot in first person -> Press stick + fast the left D pad input (if you hear the putaway sound you while talt text comes up you did it right). Press Stick + press L target (You have a few frames only). Or you can press L before and after the stick button so it's not frame perfect.

Also someone should put Action Swap in the tricks section and what it's usefull for (Melt Goht, Melt grotto ice blocks, alternative to Mountain Early)


There are 2 useful ways to trigger action swap in any%:

1) Pull out your bow and draw an arrow in first-person mode. With the arrow still drawn, press stick and then press Tatl 1 frame later. If you set an alarm, you can get a Tatl dialog anytime you want.
- Used in Woodfall temple to light the torch (Tatl wants to talk to you in this room, so you can leverage that)
- Used to unfreeze Goht via Tatl alarm

2) Have the bow in your hand. You can do this easily by aiming with the bow and then blocking. Then go up to an NPC and hold R. While holding R, press stick and then talk to the NPC 1 frame later.
- Used in mountain area to get action swap from Tingle.

Then, once you have action swap through one of the above methods, pull out your bow in first person (but don't draw an arrow). Then hold L, press the stick button, and release the stick button. You will shoot a flaming arrow.

Thank you guys! I will try that now. I am almost done with learning this run completely. I just need to practice Gibdo clip more because it is tough for me to get the right set-up.

This community rocks socks!
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on April 09, 2015, 11:23:07 PM
Thank you guys! I will try that now. I am almost done with learning this run completely. I just need to practice Gibdo clip more because it is tough for me to get the right set-up.

This community rocks socks!

I find it's always easiest with Hookshot on X and not Y since there's less risk of accidentally pressing B or the other item button. You can hold hookshot with the end of your thumb while pressing A with the middle. Practice side-hopping and letting go of the hookshot when you hit the floor. Don't be afraid to let go of hookshot a few frames early. This clip used to be tricky for me too. I grinded it for half an hour straight, and now I'm pretty consistent at both getting it and walking straight into the loading zone aftewards.

Don't get me wrong, I still suck at a lot of stuff. Skull kid cutscene for example.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on April 18, 2015, 01:46:56 PM
Video demonstration of consecutive mask jumps(Jump slash cancels?):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcf0urrops (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcf0urrops)

Since nothing seems to happen with new discoveries until someone makes a video, I've decided to make a video of my version of the prior TAS only trick, demonstrating it possible semi-consistently even if it's a little slower on console.

It also documents an interesting property of consecutive mask jumps: if the third consecutive mask jump is failed, Zora Link goes into strange alternative animation that continues until link lands on the ground resembling Zora Link holding his fins to shoot them, crashing when it hits the ground. This doesn't apply to any failed mask jump after or before the third, which all generally don't crash unless you are really low to the ground, often even surprising myself to how lenient they are. This different animation might provide something interesting for Deku and regular link, but the trick is much much harder for those two so I haven't tested yet what it will do.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Weegeechan on April 20, 2015, 10:23:04 AM
Found these a while ago but forgot to post about them:

This may only be relevant for a TAS, but I found a way to backflip over the desk after listening to granny's stories. Grezzo changed the hitbox of the desk so that it is almost impossible to backflip over without talking to the receptionist. This means it's not possible to backflip easily over the desk like you could in MM64 but I found a very specific spot that Deku can backflip from and get on top of it.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTRHhXMr3nvOez) (https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTRHeUQYrxKDl5)

You want to stay as close to the door frame as possible and walk up until you see the "speak" prompt. Inch back as little as possible until it disappears. Like in the picture above, backflip at that angle and hold down+left. It might take you a few tries but you'll eventually land on top of the desk. Honestly, it's pretty hard to do and is probably not worth it. But hey, might as well document anything that's faster.

---------

The 2nd thing, which was already known in MM64, is getting the rock sirloin early.

Some of you may know about this, but I feel like it's not as well known as it should be.

What you do is, light a Deku Stick on fire after playing the lullaby, then light one of the torches on the balcony. Take out your bow and shoot an arrow through the fire at the center of the chandelier. This will light up the chandelier without lighting up all the torches.

(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzTM1l-ExISCOMK)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on April 22, 2015, 07:17:31 PM
Btw, how are we going to get into milk bar with mask jump? i'm thinking we can ledge clip on the wall next to the east clock town guard and Mask jump there, but i'm not so sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keZ5e8BdntI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keZ5e8BdntI)

If we do this clip, then we should have the correct angle I think. I can't get it working though to test it; I keep getting pushed out of the wall.

Anyone else get this working?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on April 24, 2015, 06:40:13 PM
I've done some more testing. The clip is actually pretty easy, and it should only take about 4 - 5 consecutive mask jumps to make it into the loading zone. If we do that, then we can skip Epona.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gymnast86 on April 24, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
I haven't tried doing consecutive mask jumps myself, however some people say that doing 3 of them in a row crashes the game
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: weckar on April 25, 2015, 05:44:50 AM
I've been trying the Pictobox method for RI, and for some reason it is just not working for me. Whenever I tap the RI button when going out of the pictobox, it instead just re-enters the pictobox, resetting the item validities.
Is my timing just off?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on April 25, 2015, 06:12:48 AM
I haven't tried doing consecutive mask jumps myself, however some people say that doing 3 of them in a row crashes the game
1. That refers to failing the third mask jump, not completing it. failing any mask jump after that or before that is OK on landing provided you are sufficiently distant from the ground. It is possible to do a mask jump out of that animation, even though it doesn't look like it, and the timing is the same as the second mask jumps before it. I made that last segment of the video specifically to address this belief and didn't upload anything about the setup until I had proof of this, that you could do more than two successful consecutive mask jumps and that that failing the fourth would give the normal jump slash animation unlike the third before it.

I myself was running into a long stretch where I could only do two consecutive mask jumps in a row and then crash failing the third, because the Bottle + b + item button + home button string of inputs is very difficult to do correctly and issues with it are very difficult to diagnose. I've gotten past that though. The best way to practice this is to practice the mask jumps over water; that way you can still continue your practice even if you fail the third mask jump because you will land in water and not crash the game.

2. Doesn't apply when over a void. you just void out.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: weckar on April 25, 2015, 03:25:04 PM
So I've just been experimenting a lot. Tried to find a reverse ikana well clip, but no luck. Has one been found yet?
Also, like I assume many others have I tried the old N64 HMS CS skip, but that only resulted in a total system freeze.
All in all: I'm new to this game specifically, but excited about the possibilities. Trying to learn the basic tricks, but thus far trying to stay away from anything frame-perfect that can't be buffered. The N3DSXL is just not layed out for that stuff.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: ToxicPlaysStuff on April 26, 2015, 07:06:52 AM
I'm learning Any%, and I pretty much have it down, but there's one thing that concerns me: When getting Epona into Clocktown, she stands up on her hind legs every two ingame seconds, and the animation also takes two ingame seconds. So when the time is 5:58 (No ISoT) you can't get on her in time for the day transition. Is there a workaround to this?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on April 26, 2015, 08:39:52 AM
She doesn't whinny at fixed intervals, it's random. You just have to be lucky.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on April 27, 2015, 01:20:06 PM
I'm learning Any%, and I pretty much have it down, but there's one thing that concerns me: When getting Epona into Clocktown, she stands up on her hind legs every two ingame seconds, and the animation also takes two ingame seconds. So when the time is 5:58 (No ISoT) you can't get on her in time for the day transition. Is there a workaround to this?

There is now, courtesy of me. :)

Epona Skip in MM3D(Milk bar clip with consecutive mask jumps)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6__86lzosJQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6__86lzosJQ)

Turns out,  even if you buffer every frame that requires frame perfect input for a consecutive mask jump, it's STILL faster than getting Epona, even with a shaky hand and and wasting time worrying over which inputs to press. I think some of the inputs at the end were unnecessary as well and could be replaced with a normal mask jump, so this can likely be boiled down to around a minute of inputs for a 5 minute skip minus the benefits of Deku sword.

If this doesn't convince you guys to learn consecutive mask jumps, I don't know what will. It's a 2 - 3 minute time save.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gymnast86 on April 27, 2015, 08:14:20 PM
The thing is, pause buffering on a regular 3ds even with a digital copy and a class 10 SD card is extremely difficult and people who have played on both the regular 3ds and the New 3ds systems say that the New  3ds home buffering is a godsend compared to the home buffering on a regular 3ds. I myself have tried consecutive mask jumping for what i would estimate to be about and can very rarely do more than 2 consecutive mask jumps at a time. So I for one will not be doing this difficult trick during any of my runs unless an easier way that does not involve an insane amount of pause buffering. Also Deku Sword is cool :P
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on April 27, 2015, 08:43:30 PM
The thing is, pause buffering on a regular 3ds even with a digital copy and a class 10 SD card is extremely difficult and people who have played on both the regular 3ds and the New 3ds systems say that the New  3ds home buffering is a godsend compared to the home buffering on a regular 3ds. I myself have tried consecutive mask jumping for what i would estimate to be about and can very rarely do more than 2 consecutive mask jumps at a time. So I for one will not be doing this difficult trick during any of my runs unless an easier way that does not involve an insane amount of pause buffering. Also Deku Sword is cool :P

I'm going to have to agree with every word of this. If someone really wants WR that badly, be my guest, but I really don't want to have to spend time grinding such a difficult trick. Plus, I've tried doing even just 2 in the same jump, but couldn't quite grasp how consecutive jumps work. The socalled video demonstrations really don't provide much in the way of explanation.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on April 27, 2015, 08:45:10 PM
Ugggh. Sorry guys. Had no idea it was gonna be a New 3DS exclusive. :(((((

The normal way has less buffering and would have been executed faster, but I was struggling for consistency with the trick and wanted to show that it was possible. I did it this way because I had assumed that home buffering was easy for everybody XP.

It's much easier now than it was though. It's been pointed out that you can press the inventory button during the buffers instead of beforehand, right when you press the mask button, making the trick substantially easier with only face button inputs out of buffers. You might want to take another stab at it now.

Fun fact: still haven't beaten MM, 3D or otherwise, just because I've been enjoying myself messing around with glitches. I've ruined the game for speedrunning and I haven't even finished it yet.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on April 27, 2015, 09:56:52 PM
I'm going to have to agree with every word of this. If someone really wants WR that badly, be my guest, but I really don't want to have to spend time grinding such a difficult trick. Plus, I've tried doing even just 2 in the same jump, but couldn't quite grasp how consecutive jumps work. The socalled video demonstrations really don't provide much in the way of explanation.

Sorry to give a terrible explanation. :/ Feeling like an awful person today even though I should feel great given the find; I seem to just ruin everything. Half considering deleting the videos and having the community pretend this all never happened. Since no one seems to be able to do this trick anyways without my advice I could technically un-ruin this game if I wanted to.

Fun Fact: I wouldn't even have a New 3DS if I hadn't lost my 3DS on a plane flight last July, and likely would have never found this trick in that case. I'll just add this to the laundry list of things ruined by that.

I'll attempt a better explanation right now anyways
basically, the new strategy is this; it's substantially easier to perform.
with bottle on one non-screen button and a transformation mask on another:

1. press b + home at around the same time; I use thumb + middle  This part seems inconsistent; home doesn't seem to act the same way every time, and I need to do more research. My previous statements in the videos about timing aren't particularly accurate, even though I felt the were at the time. sorry. :(

I haven't been getting this very consistently either by the way. Sorry if the videos gave that impression. I just wanted to show that the trick worked and dispel rumors that more than two mask jumps was impossible.

2. return to the game after holding down where the mask inventory screen button would be with your left thumb and the mask button, pressing the home button quickly afterwards ensuring you only advance the game a single frame. ZL's fins should be out halfway at this point. If not, step 1 failed, either from your error or the system's.

What's ultimately going on here is that you are doing a mask jump manually using buffered inputs as Zora while holding down the inventory button on the right frame so that you can release them later. That's all, through all the specific buttons mentioned.

3. release everything on the next home buffer. The inventory screen pops up on just the right frame and you can swap out one mask for another item(which I choose to be another transformation mask because it makes the trick repeatable without pausing), negating the mask storage that locks you out of your buttons while still giving you the mask jump.
4. pull out a bottle, repeat from step 1. bottle causes issues because when you pull out a bottle there's three frames where you cannot perform any inputs at all. It's what makes this trick so difficult.

I'm sorry if this is explanation isn't at all helpful, but I have an exam to study for, so any further explanation is on delay for at least a couple of days. Oh well. Not like anyone wants this to work anyways.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: kronspik on April 27, 2015, 10:48:02 PM
No need to apologize for finding a trick. This isn't the first time a new trick has forced people to buy new systems. OoT has had to deal with this for a while now.

It's possible that we will find another way to use gain distance into the loading zone, or an easier way to consecutive mask jump, or the cost of N3DS will drop. People are just salty.  :)

EDIT: Should N3DS be considered a different platform on the leaderboard if there would be N3DS exclusive tricks? I have no idea what the standard is for this.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Pedalpowertoast on April 29, 2015, 10:18:29 PM
I was just about to say what kronspik was about to say, no need to blame yourself for anything, I give props to you for even bothering to test this trick at all, it's good for documentation purposes. And honestly I kind of expected some n3DS exclusive thing to be found, or something that makes it faster sooner or later.

I personally don't really give a shit if its faster or not, even if a run is done on poorer hardware, that doesn't mean it's going to be worse execution wise, by that I mean until someone manages to pull off this skip in a run (with or without n3DS which is just a matter of time) all the times are going to be equal, think of it as some sort of "TAS only" trick that saves a lot of time in some other game, but can't be pulled off. Basically you could unofficially "convert" times, which would give a rough estimate about what time you could've gotten with or without the trick, of course people aiming for WR wouldn't care about that.

It's no doubt that eventually it's going to become the thing that splits the runners, unless we find some other method like kronspik mentioned.

I know it can be demotivating to know this trick exists, but I haven't seen anyone buying a Japanese n3DS to gain advantage yet, so I wouldn't really care about it. It's no different from when people did runs of this game back when it came out, despite it being new and glitches took some time to find. Things like BA weren't used, but people still did runs.

So these are basically my thoughts about this atm, feel free to disagree with me. I probably forgot something, but ah well.

As for my thoughts about how to handle leaderboards, this I think is a bit of a tricky question, as technically n3DS does nothing more than let the game go to the 3DS home menu faster, which doesn't really mean it's faster from a gameplay perspective compared to say iQue with less lag or Wii VC due to emulation. If we're going to split it for that, might as well split by Digital and Cart copies and SD card Class speeds, which also affect home menu speeds... It's a really controversial subject, but hopefully it doesn't take long to come up with a resolution. The last thing I want is this games community to die due to this whole thing, it's better we discuss it now rather than later.

E: On second thought, before we start discussing this more, I think we should probably make a new topic, just to not abuse this one.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: kronspik on April 30, 2015, 03:09:51 AM
As for my thoughts about how to handle leaderboards, this I think is a bit of a tricky question, as technically n3DS does nothing more than let the game go to the 3DS home menu faster, which doesn't really mean it's faster from a gameplay perspective compared to say iQue with less lag or Wii VC due to emulation. If we're going to split it for that, might as well split by Digital and Cart copies and SD card Class speeds, which also affect home menu speeds... It's a really controversial subject, but hopefully it doesn't take long to come up with a resolution. The last thing I want is this games community to die due to this whole thing, it's better we discuss it now rather than later.

Actually from my understanding, the N3DS lets you consistently perform 1 frame buffers. So you can press Home, advance a single frame, and then press Home again. On other 3DS versions, this is really inconsistent and you will advance 1-3 frames instead. That's the difference between being able to properly execute 1 frame tricks or not. The issue was never about Home speed.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on April 30, 2015, 06:24:30 PM
Guess what I just found. (It involves saving you all the price of a New 3DS + Capturecard)

Turns out there's a way to reduce the trick from two buffers to one buffer that I hadn't thought was possible before due to the belief that releasing the inventory buttons prevented input to the game. It adds a frame perfect trick, but if people can do storage in TWW which doesn't have consistent timings like this trick should they can certainly do this, and it means no more relying on buffering which allows everybody with any 3DS to do this trick. I'm probably not going to do this if I ever do runs because it's pretty difficult as it is for me, but I'm sure people like Gymnast or SVA can handle it.

Step 1: press home and b at the exact same time, as if you were doing a mask jump without buffering. I've dome more testing and found this to be the case. The only reason I couldn't tell for sure is because the home button is ridiculously finicky for consistent input, and often pressing b later or earlier would seem to work, but I've determined that to have been a result of not giving the home button sufficient pressure or pressure on a location too far from the center of the button due to the button being concave instead of convex.

Step 2: hold down your deku or goron mask button(on either x or y) and your mask inventory button as the game returns from the home screen. at the very next frame after the game starts back up, let go of the mask inventory button. If you've done it too early you won't pause at all, too late and you won't be able to pull a bottle after the inventory closes because the menu will have popped up too late.

The inventory pops up, and the trick works as it normally does; swap out the deku mask for the goron mask or vice versa and continue with

3: press bottle then b + home simultaneously and repeat from step 2. My advice here is to once you've gotten this step working once or twice to find a rhythm for the button presses; It's what I do, and I'll try and demonstrate it in the video showing this off once I make it.

No video for a while. Got major assignments to do between now and then. Probably will be up on Wednesday presuming I don't end up doing it earlier out of my obsession with this crazy trick overriding my common sense.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on May 01, 2015, 12:19:02 PM
Nice! =)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 02, 2015, 10:36:38 AM
Yeah, I still can't even get it twice. And guess what. I'm using my new New 3DS for it. I can frame buffer 1 frame consistently with the home button. But I cant fucking do this. These explanations are way to convoluted. It really needs to be boiled down to what to do without all the explanation tied in. It makes it extremely hard to understand.

Consecutive mask jumps really aren't worth this frustration.

Edit: I've managed to get 3 in a row. Side note number 2: It took about 100 tires just to get the second mask jump to happen at all. It took 100 tries just to get Zora Link to pull out a goddamn bottle. Not to mention, I tried the clip, just to see if I could get OoB to setup where to do the Mask jumping... tried another 100 times to no avail.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: demolition14 on May 02, 2015, 12:10:30 PM
I found a way to go out of bounds to fake south CT from east CT. You have to get onto the straw roof using the deku flower and long jump onto the purple crown on the chest minigame place. You have to be Zora and you have to jumpslash onto the house. From there sidehop right 4 times and jumpslash 2 times. I would show an image, but I don't have anything to show it with :(
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 02, 2015, 01:19:28 PM
As for my thoughts about how to handle leaderboards, this I think is a bit of a tricky question, as technically n3DS does nothing more than let the game go to the 3DS home menu faster, which doesn't really mean it's faster from a gameplay perspective compared to say iQue with less lag or Wii VC due to emulation. If we're going to split it for that, might as well split by Digital and Cart copies and SD card Class speeds, which also affect home menu speeds... It's a really controversial subject, but hopefully it doesn't take long to come up with a resolution. The last thing I want is this games community to die due to this whole thing, it's better we discuss it now rather than later.

I really don't think a debate is needed. This point of speedrunning the game is to beat it as fast as possible. That's what a speedrun is. If you can buy a 10 dollar (Micro)SD card and/or get a digital copy of the game, then what's the harm? You're not bothering other runners who are using whatever methods they use to make it faster. Hell, I switched to French and did a few practice runs just because I thought French could save me 5 seconds in a run. Also, digital copies save in about 1/3 of the time, saving 2 seconds for each save and quit (6 seconds in all). So five seconds from a language change and 6 seconds in Saves, that's about an 11 second difference. And there aren't any run pairs that come close to only being 11 seconds apart, much less where both runs use different languages and only one of them is digital. And the n3DS doesn't return to the home menu that much faster, but it is more consistent and going between home menu and resuming and using the same amount of time to do so. It makes buffering more consistent, but it doesn't make a run 10-11 seconds faster. 1-2 seconds overall maybe.

The point is, the slowest possible setup (English, physical copy, 3DS) vs the fastest possible setup (Japanese, Digital on fast SD card, n3DS) only has a time difference of about 15-20 seconds overall given both have optimal execution. If you want to split categories based on that, you'll have to split categories based on who uses Goron boost to get to Great Bay early and who uses a bomb jump w/ jump slash to get to great bay early since one is potentially 15 seconds faster than another, but some of us just choose to do Goron Boost instead.

The debate here is really if one person used the slowest possible setup and another used the fastest, but the slower person was only a second off from the other guy's time, then who had better execution? That just means the slower person has the opportunity and potential to have a faster run, but chooses not to gain every advantage even if it costs 0 dollars. So why put marathon runners in different categories based on who wears Nikes with Dr. Schools foot inserts and who wears Addidas without socks?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on May 03, 2015, 07:07:30 AM
When it comes to discussions such as leaderboards and rules for speedruns, I always like to use the decisions other communities use as a basis. In this case, my mind is drawn to Skyward Sword. Many runners are able to save a very significant amount of time in loading on the newer black wii model. They do not splits the times or convert or anything at all. Honestly, doing that just adds extra confusion that simply is not necessary.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 03, 2015, 11:11:49 PM
I found a way to go out of bounds to fake south CT from east CT. You have to get onto the straw roof using the deku flower and long jump onto the purple crown on the chest minigame place. You have to be Zora and you have to jumpslash onto the house. From there sidehop right 4 times and jumpslash 2 times. I would show an image, but I don't have anything to show it with :(

I've documented this. I gave you credit in the description. I'm trying to play around in there, see if anything interesting can come of it. As far as I can tell, it's useless. Entertaining to do though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmT930TGNTE

Demolition's OoB with the ranch. Definitely useless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh1iOR4Q3kY
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: demolition14 on May 04, 2015, 03:08:10 AM
I found another OOB but it is useless. In Romani Ranch  after the cows  have been abducted you can zora gainer onto the small room attached to the building where all cows once were and you will pop up. after that you can do a zora backflip onto the non existent roof and either fall into the loading zone or a void.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on May 05, 2015, 04:16:12 PM
Apparently having the extra circle pad is what causes the extra lag that makes one frame buffers so easy! This means with a circle pad pro, it is possible on a vanilla 3DS!! :)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on May 05, 2015, 04:27:43 PM
Apparently having the extra circle pad is what causes the extra lag that makes one frame buffers so easy! This means with a circle pad pro, it is possible on a vanilla 3DS!! :)
LOL.

That is simultaeneously the greatest and dumbest find ever.

So glad you found this. Everybody was dragging their feet on this trick, and now people won't have to learn some rediculous one frame variant of this trick.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: weckar on May 06, 2015, 01:02:42 AM
I understand from some other 3DS game communities that 'jiggling' the 3D on the N3DS also causes significant useful lag frames. I don't see a difference myself (although having to do ANOTHER button may be a factor here for me) but can someone more proficient in tricks confirm/deny this for MM3D?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on May 06, 2015, 12:20:52 PM
https://youtu.be/PRk-QU6ZXgc

I'll upload a lot more things that we can do with this tonight. I've already thought of about 4 or 5 things that could be really useful if we didn't already have faster ways to skip them
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 07, 2015, 09:55:15 PM
https://youtu.be/PRk-QU6ZXgc

I'll upload a lot more things that we can do with this tonight. I've already thought of about 4 or 5 things that could be really useful if we didn't already have faster ways to skip them

Major(a) props to Ben for taking this trick from being a pain in everyone's ass to a slight migraine inducing obstacle.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on May 08, 2015, 07:37:02 AM
Major(a) props to Ben for taking this trick from being a pain in everyone's ass to a slight migraine inducing obstacle.
Not if I can help it, it seems. Though it may now be easier due to the CPP working, you guys are probably going to have to learn this at some point, and it's faster anyways.

Behold the return of the two buffer mask jump.

It's possible to gain height with mask jumps, but the time lost to buffering home is too costly to do so with the five buffer CMJ, requiring the two-buffer CMJ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xreG0BDm7vw

To do it this way, for the input between inventory and the next buffer, on leaving the inventory screen press bottle as soon as the input will allow and press home + b simultaneously 1-3 frames after bottle, with 2 frames being ideal buffering. One frame requires an extra buffer to make it to the proper window and occasionally doesn't work for some reason, and three doesn't take you up as quickly. for frame 1, link will have large fins as he takes out the bottle, frame 2 will have link on the second frame of pulling out the bottle, which looks identical to the first frame of the jump slash, and frame 3 has Link in neutral behavior. 2-3 behave the same for buffers. The reason the two buffer method works is that home takes an additional frame to exit, skipping the two buffers waiting for the jump slash to start and placing the game in the proper state.

Also, simultaneous input of home + b is going to vary system by system because 3DS and N3DS have different levels of pressure required for home buttons IIRC. To figure out what it'll mean for your system, find which level of pressure on each button causes a mask jump if you buffer a physical button transformation mask input. figuring out how to do that consistently after hitting other buttons is the only hard part of the trick, and if you can do that the rest falls into place.

Two buffer CMJs can be done consistently. I'm getting chains of 10-15 mask jumps with it; it's just not a very easy trick to record because home + b is so finicky that the way you hold the device actually influences the result of the input. There's a reason every single video I've recorded of the trick has the N3DS held at an angle.

If we were able to get this working, STT BK skip might be doable, and I'm pretty sure there are some spots in there where hovering saves a substantial amount of time going over a specific sun block IIRC. This variant needs more testing to see what can be done with it. However, this trick can't make Goron skip possible because the trick isn't possible without the Goron mask anyways as you won't have a mask to switch to that works for transformation storage.

Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 08, 2015, 10:28:05 AM
Not if I can help it, it seems. Though it may now be easier due to the CPP working, you guys are probably going to have to learn this at some point, and it's faster anyways.

Behold the return of the two buffer mask jump.

It's possible to gain height with mask jumps, but the time lost to buffering home is too costly to do so with the five buffer CMJ, requiring the two-buffer CMJ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xreG0BDm7vw

To do it this way, for the input between inventory and the next buffer, on leaving the inventory screen press bottle as soon as the input will allow and press home + b simultaneously 1-3 frames after bottle, with 2 frames being ideal buffering. One frame requires an extra buffer to make it to the proper window and occasionally doesn't work for some reason, and three doesn't take you up as quickly. for frame 1, link will have large fins as he takes out the bottle, frame 2 will have link on the second frame of pulling out the bottle, which looks identical to the first frame of the jump slash, and frame 3 has Link in neutral behavior. 2-3 behave the same for buffers. The reason the two buffer method works is that home takes an additional frame to exit, skipping the two buffers waiting for the jump slash to start and placing the game in the proper state.

Also, simultaneous input of home + b is going to vary system by system because 3DS and N3DS have different levels of pressure required for home buttons IIRC. To figure out what it'll mean for your system, find which level of pressure on each button causes a mask jump if you buffer a physical button transformation mask input. figuring out how to do that consistently after hitting other buttons is the only hard part of the trick, and if you can do that the rest falls into place.

Two buffer CMJs can be done consistently. I'm getting chains of 10-15 mask jumps with it; it's just not a very easy trick to record because home + b is so finicky that the way you hold the device actually influences the result of the input. There's a reason every single video I've recorded of the trick has the N3DS held at an angle.

If we were able to get this working, STT BK skip might be doable, and I'm pretty sure there are some spots in there where hovering saves a substantial amount of time going over a specific sun block IIRC. This variant needs more testing to see what can be done with it. However, this trick can't make Goron skip possible because the trick isn't possible without the Goron mask anyways as you won't have a mask to switch to that works for transformation storage.



Aaand... this turns out to be a pain in the ass to do.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on May 11, 2015, 11:31:03 AM
I take back that Goron skip impossibility. It's going to make the trick even harder though. Yay.

If we do the trick as regular Link, then we have two masks to switch. If it's possible to gain height as regular link then goron skip will happen. I'm going to look for an alternate method for regular link. This'll mean the trick has even higher stakes though. Regular link crashes at any height with any jump slash unless there's some alternate animation later on.

Not having Goron mask won't make new milk bar clip impossible with ZL though. because we can fall so much during the trick we should have time to put the deku mask back. There might be some way for me to get the mask back on in time with a separate pause and still gain height. It's probably going to involve touching the touch screen while doing the trick again though.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on May 11, 2015, 01:42:25 PM
We need goron mask for Gibdo BA.

Also someone should mess around STT BKS... I'm sure there's a way with bomb boost, mask jumps, recoil flips or jumpslash recoil.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on May 11, 2015, 02:33:09 PM
We need goron mask for Gibdo BA.

Also someone should mess around STT BKS... I'm sure there's a way with bomb boost, mask jumps, recoil flips or jumpslash recoil.
Not with arbitrary height gain we don't, at least in theory anyways. You can start up consecutive mask jumps from a side hop, so you should be able to make it over anything anywhere. Not necessarily quickly, granted; going over the fences that way sounds arduous given how slow the rise on CMJs are.

Definitely need to test STT BKS though. We have anything that we could possibly need.

Now, if only there was some way to make that Astral Observatory WW to Inverted Stone Tower not crash...
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on May 11, 2015, 02:41:11 PM
Uh, wow guys. You need to do more thorough testing. I just did a failed consecutive jump slash as regular link and it doesn't crash at all when you are high enough. O.O
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on May 11, 2015, 02:49:56 PM
OK. RIP that idea. when you attempt to do the third mask jump the game crashes because it attempts to go to an animation Link doesn't have that Zora does. :/ It's a shame, because link clearly is gaining height, and it's so much easier as regular Link.

I guess this is where that rumor came from. Bizarre.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on May 11, 2015, 03:24:10 PM
OK, everyone had better thank me again for saving your asses. I swear, you guys have no drive at all. I've found a way to do the arbitrary height trick as zora the five buffer way, meaning everybody can do it.
The only thing we were doing wrong is not doing it fast enough.
1) press bottle and home at the same time as soon as possible after coming out of the menu(not as precise as b + home at all. best scenario is that link doesn't change positions at all after home. I was consistent at this part as soon as I tried it, and you should be too if you were doing CMJs already.)
2) press b the very next frame.
3) wait a frame
4) hold physical mask button plus mask or item inventory button.
5) release everything.
If you do it this way, link will gain height on every mask jump.

No more excuses for anybody. everyone can do this.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on May 12, 2015, 04:25:40 AM
https://youtu.be/yUS0OQDL5wI

Fireblaze found a method to do this without Goron mask so I'll probably make a video of me doing that late tonight.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: weckar on May 12, 2015, 03:03:45 PM
Awesome tutorial. Any idea how long it would take at run speed?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 12, 2015, 07:37:35 PM
Awesome tutorial. Any idea how long it would take at run speed?

In my experiments, I've found that simple consecutive mask jumps take about 15-20 seconds per mask jump. Raising mask jumps take a bit longer per mask jump. Probably around 20-25 optimally, but would probably average 30-35 seconds per mask jump. Other than that, it's pretty arbitrary how much time is costs to do in run.

I.E., Mask jump clipping into Milk bar takes about 45-50 seconds if done pretty quickly. That's from walking backwards off the ledge to getting into the Milk bar. Compared to the ~10 seconds of extra door transitions from going to W. Clock town, exiting W. clock town, getting back in W. clock town, and going to S. clock town. Arbitrarily, it kind of only costs about 30-35 seconds in that particular spot.

That's probably not what you were asking, but I thought I'd try to shed some light.

OK, everyone had better thank me again for saving your asses. I swear, you guys have no drive at all. I've found a way to do the arbitrary height trick as zora the five buffer way, meaning everybody can do it...

...No more excuses for anybody. everyone can do this.

@MadMonk It's not really fair to say we're not trying. Some of us want to speedrun and continue speedrunning, and trying to practice something that we're not good at figuring out on our own is kind of a waste of time. And not all of us have a n3DS or a circle pad pro for easy buffering. I ONLY started to record again for a new PB because my friends got me a n3DS for my birthday and I wanted to set and record a new PB.

(end of @MadMonk)

I've been at drive trying to figure out the fastest way to do certain things. Even trying to make up for loss of Deku Sword as much as possible in Epona Skip route. I even have a few videos which I was able to do thanks to my PB video.


Best Strat For Pirate's Fortress (Climbing up the Tower) | Majora's Mask 3D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJmr2jLFa4A)

Best Strat for Ghomess (Any% Epona Skip Route) | Majora's Mask 3D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BePyabeot0A)

Best Strat for Garo Master (Any% Epona Skip Route) | Majora's Mask 3D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G28I4r_amcs)

Best STT Map Room Strat for Any% | Majora's Mask 3D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFKJSM7a5z8) <- BenStephens helped me improve this from my original idea.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gymnast86 on May 12, 2015, 10:55:20 PM
Quote
I've been at drive trying to figure out the fastest way to do certain things. Even trying to make up for loss of Deku Sword as much as possible in Epona Skip route. I even have a few videos which I was able to do thanks to my PB video.


Best Strat For Pirate's Fortress (Climbing up the Tower) | Majora's Mask 3D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJmr2jLFa4A)

Best Strat for Ghomess (Any% Epona Skip Route) | Majora's Mask 3D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BePyabeot0A)

Best Strat for Garo Master (Any% Epona Skip Route) | Majora's Mask 3D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G28I4r_amcs)

Best STT Map Room Strat for Any% | Majora's Mask 3D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFKJSM7a5z8) <- BenStephens helped me improve this from my original idea.

All of these strats look nice except for the Ghomess fight. It can be done much more easily by just using straight light arrows. It does require an RNG magic drop but since the Keese are constantly spawning around him it shouldnt be too much of a problem. Simply begin quickspinning if you run out of magic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cdGxuEjRdI (Or get lucky like I did in the video ;) )
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 13, 2015, 10:36:03 AM
All of these strats look nice except for the Ghomess fight. It can be done much more easily by just using straight light arrows. It does require an RNG magic drop but since the Keese are constantly spawning around him it shouldnt be too much of a problem. Simply begin quickspinning if you run out of magic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cdGxuEjRdI (Or get lucky like I did in the video ;) )

I'm not sure how I feel about using light arrows all the time. What if you could use deku nuts then light arrows? Maybe not hu? I just think without relying on rng, using a stick slash after deku nuts is still a good time saver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AtCoKudPLU

Sometimes when using the sticks, you hit a bat and ghomess (weird) which could fill on magic if needed. So I'll probably start using a light arrow for the first hit, use sticks until I'm out or I get a magic drop, then using light arrows again. Maybe be more consistent. We don't want to rely on RNG at any given moment.

Also Iwabi's 1:47:45 (WR as of this post) run shows that Ghomess can be hit with a stick jumpslash if light arrows are used to stun him. Not sure how fast that method is compared to the rest of ours, but I'd wager it's as fast as all light arrows if not faster since you don't have to wait after using alight arrow to pull out a stick. Light arrow, then pull out stick right away, then jumpslash when you can. I vote for that method. It's pretty easy, and if you enter with full magic, you will definitely having enough.

More finds

So it seems that buffering for the zora clip also stalls the timer for WW and 0th day. But that was obvious. But we need to take advantage of knowing that. To do Twinmold before Gyorg, we need to adjust the WW windows for Gyorg (or save and quit at a feather statue in Inverted Stone Tower Temple). The amount of time will be different for each system, but most New 3DSs will take 3.2 seconds to go out of the game and back in. Total time is roughly 38.4. You might want to test your own machine and see how fast or slow it does for you, then write down the earliest cycles you can get after Twinmold adjusted with that number.

Note: you need to have all of your buffers as fast as possible without dangling in the home menu for any reason. Practice your milk bar skip. Grind it like hell.

---

After doing a few route changes, your timer should be in the 27-28 minute range when you defeat Twinmold. This leaves offsets of windows in those minutes and beyond as candidates for a Gibdo BA. This route change came from discovering that you can BA, then save and quit, and the BA will carry over when you restart the game. You can even turn off the system and remove the cartridge. Start the game up again, it will be set up for a wrong warp. This is handy as it helps with convenience after Goht.

Let's say you did BA at 3:49 for Goht and beat him with an ideal fight. You didn't save and quit. You regain control of Link in Mountain Village around 9:30. Still 60 seconds until the next wrong warp window, 10:31-10:45. That's 60 seconds of waiting. I mean, you could get damage from the tektite, but that only takes about 10 seconds to do. And you only need 2-3 more sticks from the babas. You would have plenty of time to do that after the BA where time it doesn't matter as long as you're in Milk Bar before 6am. There's a lot of wasted time here.

So I wanted to see if I could retain WW after a Save and Quit. And for kicks, I had my timer going after that save and quit. After an ideal Goht fight, I was put back in roughtly 23 seconds before the window. It takes 28 seconds to save, quit, and restart (26 on digital versions), and 28+23=51. That's less than 60. In this manner, after you do Gibdo BA for Goht wrong warp, if you collect sticks until you hear the clock tower ring (6 sticks optimally), then save and quit, it puts you at the perfect time. Of course, you can give yourself a bit more time to get to the grotto by saving a little later, but waiting any more than another 5-6 seconds nulls the time save this strat offers.

---

I've been testing boss key fight skip. Obviously it's not hard to get a good gecko fight, but it's a bit tougher to do the skip. Just a bit though, but can be executed pretty quickly. I timed each one over and over to see the fastest times I could get with each one. Timing started when I pressed A to enter the room and timing stopped when the tatl alert for the main room popped up (since that's where the two strats intersect).

The best time I got with Gecko fight is 1:35.

The best time I got with Boss Key fight skip is 1:20.

So there you have it. I was able to save 15 more seconds due to this strat. Wouldn't we all like 15 seconds?

---

Also

Link to the route I've been working on. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/162QRlTdy-DfgVrvyOBmQ2vUiN9lweoFQnwap33hL8_U/edit?usp=sharing) I hope I can get some feedback on this.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on May 15, 2015, 05:29:23 AM
@MadMonk It's not really fair to say we're not trying. Some of us want to speedrun and continue speedrunning, and trying to practice something that we're not good at figuring out on our own is kind of a waste of time. And not all of us have a n3DS or a circle pad pro for easy buffering. I ONLY started to record again for a new PB because my friends got me a n3DS for my birthday and I wanted to set and record a new PB.
Sorry about that. Was a bit emotional at that moment. There was a long period where I was concerned that the trick would never appear in a run and that people wouldn't find other things with this because of system requirements. I was channeling some of that, even though that time has passed.

I wonder if arbitrary height gain and goron skip could be practical for any%. With fast buffers and by increasing the speed and difficulty of the trick by removing a few of the 5 buffers we do now, it's possible it could be done much faster than it is now without going as crazy as a tas would. It probably needs to happen if we're going to beat MM2D times unfortunately.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 15, 2015, 09:11:47 AM
Sorry about that. Was a bit emotional at that moment. There was a long period where I was concerned that the trick would never appear in a run and that people wouldn't find other things with this because of system requirements. I was channeling some of that, even though that time has passed.

I wonder if arbitrary height gain and goron skip could be practical for any%. With fast buffers and by increasing the speed and difficulty of the trick by removing a few of the 5 buffers we do now, it's possible it could be done much faster than it is now without going as crazy as a tas would. It probably needs to happen if we're going to beat MM2D times unfortunately.

Believe me, I want to make this game faster too. I've put so much work into improving the Epona Skip route. I probably beat Goht 20 times yesterday in my testing.

Ben's find with the circle pad pro is crazy and what made this trick more accessible. Otherwise, I think I'd probably be the only one doing it since I have a n3DS. The trick's not much easier, but it's more accessible.

And if I didn't get at least some credit for the route, I'd be pissed, so I know how you were probably feeling. I think most of us aren't exactly cut out to be glitch-hunters.

---

I suppose we could mask jump with height gain past the two fences for early Ikana. And the same could probably be done from the rock we stand on to get up there. That would probably take 1 and 1/2 minutes per fence (sub-optimal). And then use this thing I found (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0YF_BBHRx8). But then the sunblock tower takes 10 mask jumps. I got onto it with 1 mask jump from a side hope, then 9 more for height gain. Not all of them were perfect either. That's 3 seconds per buffer, 5 buffers per jump, 3 for the first one.

That's 3*5*9+3*3*1=144. Aproximately 144 seconds to get on top of that. And that's if you're fast and only counts the minimum amount of buffers. That doesn't count menu time.. A minimum of 2 1/2 minutes is required to reach it. 3 minutes if you're pretty slow though. That's for the time block. For the fences, we need 1 mask jump and 2 height gaining mask jumps per fence. 2(3*3+5*3) 48 seconds. So round up to another minute. We're looking at strats that show 3 1/2 minutes. From clock town owl to lens to goron mask to clock town owl again is 5 1/2 minutes of time average. That sounds like 2 minutes of time save.

BUT, I haven't even taken into consideration how much longer Goht will take, how much slower we'll be without Goron rolling, and the fact that we still need to go to Mountain Village to get the owl statue unless we move that later in the run to when we need mountain village. So the trip from clock town up to Mountain Village owl is NOT time saved.

The time it takes to get from clock town owl to mountain village owl (and activate it) is ~1:35. So in order to save time, Goht cannot take longer than 30 seconds more than Goron strats.

If you're wondering why I'm doing all this math, it's because I want to know if skipping goron mask could actually save time or if it's just a pipe dream.

I also wonder how we beat goht without goron mask.

---

Link to Epona Skip Route by ReidenLightman (https://docs.google.com/document/d/162QRlTdy-DfgVrvyOBmQ2vUiN9lweoFQnwap33hL8_U/edit?usp=sharing)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gymnast86 on May 15, 2015, 11:57:33 AM
Well the route with epona skip was pretty obvious to come up with since all we have to do is not get epona and continue let he timer running while doing all the wrong warps. I don't want to say that you don't deserve "credit" for the route, but the first hour is basically the same and we just chain the wrong warps after that. Although I didn't think about doing gyorg last to hopefully get third day so good job on that :) .

As for skipping Goron mask, I honestly don't think it would be worth it at this point unless we can find a way to move as fast as Goron link, and find a way to fight Goht which won't take an annoying amount of time. Also, not being a Goron also presents the potential for missing wrong warp cycles because of slower movement and Goron link is pretty useful for the majors fight.

And speaking of the majors fight, the fastest I seem to be able to beat it whilst using Goron link on Wrath took me ~3:30 with a very good fight starting from the fade out after talking to the child beneath the tree. If anyone has faster Majora starts I would love to hear them.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 15, 2015, 12:56:07 PM
Well the route with epona skip was pretty obvious to come up with since all we have to do is not get epona and continue let he timer running while doing all the wrong warps. I don't want to say that you don't deserve "credit" for the route, but the first hour is basically the same and we just chain the wrong warps after that. Although I didn't think about doing gyorg last to hopefully get third day so good job on that :) .

I didn't want all the credit. But at least some credit for what I was able to come up with. After all, I'm just trying to make sure every point in the route is using time wisely, especially when waiting for WW windows. (I want to credit the contributors who came up with the route that included deku sword and epona clip into milk bar. PM me on forums.zeldaspeedruns.com)

I did think doing Gyorg last was pretty clever. To be honest, it came from wanting to do STT wrong warp asap so when you lost a run to it, it kill maybe 1h 20m instead of 1h 40m. You could do Stone Tower Temple before Goht if you managed to collect 8 sticks without wasting time. When I first did the route in a practice run, I found myself hoping that when I mashed for Gyorg I would get third day.

Then, conveniently, I had the thought that the fewer hearts you have, the less damage you would have to take to be ready for elegy skip in switch puzzle. If you end up being full, there are PLENTY of bomb drops directly afterwards in STT. You can drop bomb and have them hurt you while you're pushing the block. 0.25 seconds per bomb. 5 hearts, you lose 1 heart to the bombchus, so max amount of bombs you would spend on this is 5. More efficient than bombchus against a statue or using the tektite on your way to the grotto.

Also, Gyorg last conveniently puts a backup fairy less than 5 seconds away from Link after the Giant's cutscene.

As for skipping Goron mask, I honestly don't think it would be worth it at this point unless we can find a way to move as fast as Goron link, and find a way to fight Goht which won't take an annoying amount of time. Also, not being a Goron also presents the potential for missing wrong warp cycles because of slower movement and Goron link is pretty useful for the majors fight.

And speaking of the majors fight, the fastest I seem to be able to beat it whilst using Goron link on Wrath took me ~3:30 with a very good fight starting from the fade out after talking to the child beneath the tree. If anyone has faster Majora starts I would love to hear them.

For incarnation (which seems to be the most troublesome for most), I use any sticks I've gathered between Twinmold and Gyorg WW. After I stun incarnation, I jumpslash with a stick then sword quick spin and hope the quick spin stuns him again. Another stick jumpslash and quick spins. 5-6 damage per stun, so about 6 stuns oughta do it.

I haven't been able to actually get Goron to punch wrath. He always seems to miss after the first punch. Any help on this would be appreciated. Stick strats are unreliable for Wrath. And Light arrows and definitely best for Mask phase.

---

God damn, I found a better and easier way to target the path to Ikana feather statue as a Zora. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gItveeIMy9s

---

Wow, I always try to keep these small and end up writing a lot.

Thanks to those who routed the game before Epona Skip.
Thanks to Gymast and BenStephens for helping me optimize certain areas.
Thanks to Fozzy for his encouragement.
Thanks to iwabi who demonstrated stick jumpslashes on Ghomess
Thanks to Lily247 who gave me the idea to save+quit between BA and WW.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gymnast86 on May 15, 2015, 01:31:08 PM
Wait I still don't understand why it is necessary to S + Q in STT. What's the reason for it? As far as I'm concerned the wrong warp cycle is still going and being activated every 80 seconds
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 15, 2015, 01:47:45 PM
Wait I still don't understand why it is necessary to S + Q in STT. What's the reason for it? As far as I'm concerned the wrong warp cycle is still going and being activated every 80 seconds

When you home buffer, the in-game timer pauses. Unless you plan to pause your timer whenever you hit the home button and resume your timer whenever the game continues again, you should Save and Quit. Alternatively, you can time how long it takes for your 3DS to go out and in 12 times. That's the amount of times you will suspend and resume the game when buffering the Milk bar clip. And while you're waiting, pause your timer for that amount of time. If you used any extra pauses, you'll have to pause your timer a little longer. Meanwhile, on the arkazoth cycle timer (http://www.arkazoth.com/cycle-timer/), I added another region for where the windows will be if I do my buffering exactly right.

Otherwise, doing a save and quit after fighting Ghomess and soaring to entrance is easiest strat for that WW.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Pedalpowertoast on May 16, 2015, 03:12:05 AM
Sorry guys, but can you stop calling him Ghomess? It's Gomess...


Kappa
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 16, 2015, 05:13:32 PM
Sorry guys, but can you stop calling him Ghomess? It's Gomess...


Kappa

Really? [checks in the game] Oh crap.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on May 17, 2015, 09:11:09 AM
Ooh. I just had a really crazy idea, an idea that would make Romani's mask faster than Gibdo if it worked and we found a better way to get past the boulder at Romani Ranch.

We can speed up the clock without gibdo's mask by bottle duping over deku mask. what would happen if we had fast clock speed during the alien event and when protecting the milk? the scenes might go by instantly. If we did it this way, a major interfering element to hookshot skip would be put to rest as well because we'd never need to do hookshot clip.

At the very least, this would be great for hundred percent with gibdo mask BA to speed up the waits for those events.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 17, 2015, 11:16:46 AM
Ooh. I just had a really crazy idea, an idea that would make Romani's mask faster than Gibdo if it worked and we found a better way to get past the boulder at Romani Ranch.

We can speed up the clock without gibdo's mask by bottle duping over deku mask. what would happen if we had fast clock speed during the alien event and when protecting the milk? the scenes might go by instantly. If we did it this way, a major interfering element to hookshot skip would be put to rest as well because we'd never need to do hookshot clip.

At the very least, this would be great for hundred percent with gibdo mask BA to speed up the waits for those events.

I'm going to start working on this and see what I find. Anything I find will be edited into this post.

Post below me is correct.

Another edit: I tried. There's not way this can be useful.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on May 17, 2015, 12:46:34 PM
Ghost movement is based on the clock, so the ghosts would reach the barn instantly.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: reidenlightman on May 17, 2015, 10:00:04 PM
Two more finds.

Climb Kevin Turtle W/O Entering Great Bay (https://youtube.com/watch?v=nd4uZCyA6Kk)

Based Grezzo (The Many Ways of Ikana Early) (https://youtube.com/watch?v=G43CJp76kyo)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: TheWayfaringFox on May 17, 2015, 10:39:14 PM
Ooh. I just had a really crazy idea, an idea that would make Romani's mask faster than Gibdo if it worked and we found a better way to get past the boulder at Romani Ranch.

We can speed up the clock without gibdo's mask by bottle duping over deku mask. what would happen if we had fast clock speed during the alien event and when protecting the milk? the scenes might go by instantly. If we did it this way, a major interfering element to hookshot skip would be put to rest as well because we'd never need to do hookshot clip.

At the very least, this would be great for hundred percent with gibdo mask BA to speed up the waits for those events.

Problems with this:
-no fast Woodfall Temple without hookshot
-have to see how fast Deku Mask BA makes time move, might be hours per frame like Gibdo Mask

My 100% route does Romani Ranch in a single trip in 100%, idk what other ideas there are...
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on May 18, 2015, 01:22:47 PM
Two more finds.

Climb Kevin Turtle W/O Entering Great Bay (https://youtube.com/watch?v=nd4uZCyA6Kk)

Based Grezzo (The Many Ways of Ikana Early) (https://youtube.com/watch?v=G43CJp76kyo)

Nice.

I found an easier more consistent setup based of yours (works for all transform masks and normal link): L Target + A , release wait a little (important), L target hold down

Waiting a half a second after L-A AND holding down L for 1 second gives the time for navi to lock on the statue... now this trick consistency is 100% and doesnt require to spam L-A-L

Also for the backflip setup, you can just put yourself behind the rock (zoras head in the middle of the rock's angled texture), and simply roll + backflip. Also works with link.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on May 29, 2015, 12:02:05 PM
Have you guys kept up with ISG? There are 2 ways to ISG as Deku now x)))
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: ToxicPlaysStuff on May 29, 2015, 06:24:15 PM
So I found this glitch i'm going to call Bow/Hookshot storage, it functions in pretty much the same way mask storage works. You do a backflip and hold the button for the hookshot or bow long enough for Link to perform his equipping animation before he hits the ground, and make sure you pull out your shield after the animation is complete and before you hit the ground. If you did it right, you'll be holding the shield as if Link was aiming the hookshot or bow. Make sure you release the shield button before untargeting to maintain the glitch. Now whenever you target, link will be holding whatever item you used, and when you press up or down, he will aim the bow/hookshot, but if you sidestep he will stop aiming and move normally. Rolling, equipping another item, or jumping of a ledge will get rid of it. I don't really think it has any practical uses, but I think we should look into doing this with other items and see if any of those have uses.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on June 10, 2015, 01:12:34 PM
Would it be possible to do a Mask jump on the way to Great Bay Early, instead of just a jumpslash? Would it even be easier?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on June 10, 2015, 01:46:19 PM
Would it be possible to do a Mask jump on the way to Great Bay Early, instead of just a jumpslash? Would it even be easier?
It wouldn't be easier or faster as the timing for mask jumps with child link isn't anywhere as convenient as the timing for zora link, generally requiring multiple buffers. Also, it doesn't actually gain more height than a jump slash though it puts link into a state where you can move which might make the trick a little easier after the mask jump is done.

It's worth testing though. Should be possible at least.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on June 16, 2015, 01:54:40 PM
I thought I recalled that there was some way to get ocarina out in first cycle in MM that was declared useless because you still had to learn the song of time anyways. Does anyone remember anything about it?

If it were possible in MM3D, we could do song of double time and advance straight to midnight of the third day, skipping a substantial amount of waiting.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on June 17, 2015, 07:35:48 AM
Wouldn't you still need to have learned the Song of Time to play Song of Double Time  anyways?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on June 17, 2015, 08:35:04 AM
I think that technique only works as human, actually. I messed around with it in first cycle with no luck. The method is to grab the ledge on Honey and Darling on the third day just as the time runs out so that the lowering platform makes you jump down after the time runs out. Then play again and jump down right away. It's kinda tricky as deku  but I never got ocarina when I tried.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on June 17, 2015, 02:57:54 PM
Wouldn't you still need to have learned the Song of Time to play Song of Double Time  anyways?
No actually. They are special case songs that work regardless of what you've learned. This is why low% can't use them- using them once writes them into your song list.

Song of time has no special case because it's written into your song list by the memory of Zelda CS and therefore doesn't need any code written for it specifically.

Sorry, I was going off of memory, though to be fair the proof that this doesn't work was very difficult to find. :/

I found the video if what I was thinking of. Song time and song of inverted time don't work when you don't know the song of time for no good reason:/ The reason I thought SoDT might work and that no one would have cared about it seemed so plausible too. Nothing to see here. :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8b7neEUcks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8b7neEUcks)
In JP 1.0, you can pull out restricted items in H&D in the first cycle for some bizarre reason, allowing you to pull out the ocarina first cycle via Bomb OI.
This is potentially possible in MM3D in first cycle, depending on whether some old glitches still work or not. It's a bit of a longshot given multiple contingencies. The main problem is lack of a way to access an item that gives a cutscene like the title deed did.

Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: BigHairyFart on June 17, 2015, 11:00:15 PM
How was something like that even found?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on June 18, 2015, 02:25:56 PM
Idk if Cycle 1 is different from other cycles, but afaik restricted items doesn't work in H&D minigame as deku anymore.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on June 18, 2015, 02:54:21 PM
Idk if Cycle 1 is different from other cycles, but afaik restricted items doesn't work in H&D minigame as deku anymore.
the thing is, now we can do RI elsewhere in first cycle via deku flower. The real issue is the change to trade items which severely limits the options available for bomb OI. Kaztalek suggests using magic beans in the description to his video which would be possible in MM3D if we found big octo skip in first cycle.. If that were to work as deku, we could pull out the ocarina out in first cycle on MM3D.

This of course wouldn't allow for SoDT anyways. The point is that it might be possible in some flavor in MM3D.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on June 18, 2015, 03:40:53 PM
of course you can Octo Skip in MM3D with deku lol


Edit: I originally made these videos for twitter about 2 days after the game was released, showing that it is possible to get to Deku Palace as Deku without Human:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHpFGk02n2w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvOtXFSCNbI
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on June 19, 2015, 07:42:47 PM
If you guys want I can try to do OI in first cycle a thing, the difficult part will be the bomb OI, since you need to get hurt twice :\

Also Deku can't use beans..
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Madmonk12345 on June 19, 2015, 07:50:31 PM
Please do. It's worth a shot, and I have a feeling it might lead to future breaks.

Is there a deku flower in the place where the monkey who teaches you sonata of awakening is? Don't remember.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on June 19, 2015, 08:50:56 PM
Inside the place? No, just on the outside of the palace
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: protatoxxxeater on June 23, 2015, 02:47:28 PM
i was messing a round with backflip ice slides in the area before mountain village and a white boe jumped over my head and i hit the tatl button
while it was above my head and link began spinning continuously  while the text was on screen
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
useless but i thought i might mention it

Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: dasfilth on July 04, 2015, 11:32:42 PM
Has anyone found the invisble Deku Stick oddity yet? I'm not sure it's even remotely useful.

Basically, I was messing around with the Action Swap fire arrow trick and wound up with an invisible deku stick in my hand. It can't hit walls, but can hit torches and pots, although it seems to be unable to break anything.

Again, probably useless, and I'm not even sure how I did it. I had just shot an Action Swap fire arrow and I think I played the Reverse Song of Time directly afterwards.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: demolition14 on July 05, 2015, 05:34:00 AM
This is the invisible deku stick glitch, you pull out a deku stick and then pull out the ocarina. We knew about it for a long time and it used to be part of the route but we then found quicker alternatives so it's useless currently.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Masterluigisw on July 09, 2015, 10:38:53 AM
Time stopped in lens of truth cave, then I let the invisible skultulla take damage and kill me. Nothing happens (softlock animation).
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: dasfilth on July 09, 2015, 03:19:19 PM
I managed to do pseudo song storage by wrong warping to the Oath to Order room, playing the Reverse Song of Time, and then voiding out.
It placed me back in the bomb shop with the song text on the screen, and free movement.

Kind of useless, because the text is immediately on screen instead of being triggered when text is encountered.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: protatoxxxeater on September 12, 2015, 07:50:58 PM
So I found this glitch i'm going to call Bow/Hookshot storage, it functions in pretty much the same way mask storage works. You do a backflip and hold the button for the hookshot or bow long enough for Link to perform his equipping animation before he hits the ground, and make sure you pull out your shield after the animation is complete and before you hit the ground. If you did it right, you'll be holding the shield as if Link was aiming the hookshot or bow. Make sure you release the shield button before untargeting to maintain the glitch. Now whenever you target, link will be holding whatever item you used, and when you press up or down, he will aim the bow/hookshot, but if you sidestep he will stop aiming and move normally. Rolling, equipping another item, or jumping of a ledge will get rid of it. I don't really think it has any practical uses, but I think we should look into doing this with other items and see if any of those have uses.

I found this a while back, just use hookshot/bow, L-target, then backflip and perform mask storage.  ;D
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: protatoxxxeater on September 12, 2015, 07:57:10 PM
Zora egg in a bottle can be used instead of mask storage for certain things such as timestop w/ storage and The useless hookshot/bow "storage"
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: protatoxxxeater on September 12, 2015, 08:04:11 PM
Possible Wind Waker storage in MM3D, i was doing action swap ocarina items with my sword when after pressing bottle and then B, my thumb slipped and I pressed B again but the ocarina didn't trigger.
The game was put into "Cutscene mode" where there were black borders around the screen, but link was in his idling animation with his sword drawn, I couldnt move so the game was soft locked.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: protatoxxxeater on September 13, 2015, 10:30:33 AM
i was trying to do an ocarina dive, i could use items and move around but the ocarina was on the bottom screen possible DHWW by using bbombs and then timing a jump slash and then playing song of soaring
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: protatoxxxeater on September 13, 2015, 10:33:46 AM
If you try to do a sword slash ocarina dive with a gossip stone by you it triggers ocarina and you fall, probably the same reason you can song storage
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: protatoxxxeater on September 13, 2015, 11:15:03 AM
If you try to do a sword slash ocarina dive with a gossip stone by you it triggers ocarina and you fall, probably the same reason you can song storage

I tried using this to warp on epona... it didnt work :(
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: benstephens1000 on September 13, 2015, 10:33:44 PM
Hi thanks for messing with the game, but to keep the forums a clean place to browse, please try to refrain from double, triple, etc. posting, instead just edit your previous post. Thanks
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: protatoxxxeater on September 15, 2015, 06:13:53 PM
SORRY BEN :o

I just found easy return A using the 5th day text storage
instead of using the sword face towards the first mailbox and point the hookshot and exit out of the second mailbox
you now have return a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------$-----------------------------------------------
Using Text Storage with other transformations has some cool results, Upside down goron/Curl storage, Zora first person glitch, zora isg, and FD isg.

Probably known but after you select an item from the menu you can use restricted items.
-----
"Death" timestop:
Perform the unnamed ocarina glitch ("ocarina dive" next to gossip stone) find a grotto, and turn around so you can back flip into it. Play song of time, back flip then quickly kill your self via, chu, bomb, bomb mask, etc. Link should fall under the ground then the grotto will load. Just before link touches the ground press yes on the text box and link will be healed and in timestop.
 �pressing yes too early will heal link and the item menu will be on the bottom screen but, timestop won't activate
    � using ocarina items and canceling out of the ocarina will bring up the "return to the first day" textbox
      � playing ANY song will bring up "return to the first day" text and selecting yes will play the cutscene and return you to the first day.
-----
Oceanside Spider house mask puzzle skip:
Get onto the left side of the fire place ( jump from table or back flip onto pots and roll jump)
Target the back wall, ledge clip ( wait for Zora link to stop moving), press A, move further into the wall then roll or walk forward.
�The red gate lacks collision so after getting the heart peice you can walk through.
�sidehopping right into the fireplace  then holding up left and re targeting makes clipping easier.
----
Oceanside spider house hookshot clips:
In the main room ( from entrance) walk to the left and target the web in front of the door then strafe into the torch and press and hold the button the hookshot is on and L, once you are against the torch release the hookshot button and link will clip.
�jump slashing right after you fall can give you recoil and you will land by the door of the room with the mask puzzle
� triple slash clips can put you back in bounds
� the hookshot can bring you back in bounds
�jump slashing can also make link void out

In the main room (from entrance) turn right and get between the torch and the wall, hold L and backflip, during the back flip press the hookshot button, If timed right link will fall.
�jump slashing while you fall will place you on a ledge turning around and slashing will give you recoil into the unloaded mask puzzle room
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Pseudo Twili on February 29, 2016, 04:02:08 PM
I'm not sure if this is of any use to anyone, but I accidentally discovered how to easily get unlimited fishing hole passes. Also, I really don't know if anyone else has found this minor glitch, but here goes.

You have to activate the 4th day glitch and complete the Oceanside Spider House. Normally, the nervous man gives you just one fishing hole pass if you already have the giant's wallet, but during the 4th day he will give you unlimited passes. You just have to keep talking to him and he'll keep doling them out. If you leave and return he will give you no more.

Here is a post I made on Miiverse after discovering it: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkN2N5Dww (https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkN2N5Dww)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: gabyelnuevo on March 02, 2016, 07:52:22 AM
That's a cool way to get a lot of passes. Nice!
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: atleastjake on July 26, 2016, 04:42:22 AM
This may be a stupid question, but I couldn't find an answer and I'm new to attempting running this game. Should I be running the 1.0 version or does 1.1 make a difference?
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: megahirtz on July 26, 2016, 08:59:04 AM
There is a Versions page (http://zeldaspeedruns.com/mm3d/knowledge/versions) that lets you know the glitches that were patched in 1.1 but it's not necessarily clear from that page what it means for running the game.

The third bullet point on that page is the big one, ESS Bottle Duping over masks is essential for any glitched run. For Any% Bottle Duping over Masks is necessary for Gibdo Bottle Adventure which Wrong Warps us to the Ghot boss fight, the Gyorg boss fight, and the beginning of Stone Tower Temple. The routes for the All Masks and 100% categories both include Gibdo BA but I'm not familiar enough with the runs to tell you what they use it for. Probably the same warps since those are the most useful ones.

You can always run Glitchless of course if your MM3D cart came with ver 1.1 on it.

If you updated to 1.1 on your 3DS it is possible to delete the patch to downgrade back to 1.0. That process is in the Notes section of the Versions page.
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: Samster68 on September 04, 2016, 06:35:20 PM
Hello World! My name is Samster68 and I run a Youtube channel where I play various video games, one of them being Majora's Mask 3D. In my research, I found a video of somebody performing the Grotto Void Warp. I learned it myself and posted a video on my channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRau8atjdFI

It's your choice if you want to add this glitch to the sight. I just wanted to make light of it.
Later! ;)
Title: Re: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions
Post by: runebeowulf on March 09, 2017, 09:53:35 AM
Hello, I was wondering if the long jump was banned from a Glitchless run. According to ZSR it is not, but on speedrun.com it states that it is.